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Trying to draw a line between student protests in western campuses and Vladimir Putin and Erdogan is a stretch.

by reso 10y ago

partiallypro 10y ago
Both are forms of censorship. If we were to encourage the groping of a woman, it could eventually lead to rape. One is much worse than the other, but that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye or not see their inherent connection. The same applies here. If we allow our intellectual leaders to censor, what's to stop our political leaders to not follow suit?
- reso 10y ago
  It all depends on how big you think each problem is. I'm quite confident that the events we hear about on campuses are outliers that are presented as the norm, but that's not the perception of most commentators. On the other hand, it seems clear that there is brutal systemic repression in these other states. It seems absurd to compare the repressive power of the Communist Party of China to a liberal student union.
  - partiallypro 10y ago
    > I'm quite confident that the events we hear about on campuses are outliers that are presented as the norm Even if you wanted to brush off campuses censoring, you can just look at the upper echelon of the political spectrum and see it's already a problem. President Obama has jailed several journalists in his tenure, more than any other President in U.S. history. We mock Russia, Saudi Arabia, and others for doing the same. Campus censorship is a symptom of a much larger problem.
    - HillaryBriss 10y ago
      > President Obama has jailed several journalists in his tenure, more than any other President in U.S. history. Wait. What? Which journalists has Obama jailed? How many journalists did other presidents jail?
      - partiallypro 10y ago
        https://www.cpj.org/reports/2013/10/obama-and-the-press-us-leaks-surveillance-post-911.php https://www.cpj.org/reports/2013/10/obama-and-the-press-us-l... http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/jake-tapper/cnns-tapper-obama-has-used-espionage-act-more-all-/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/... The high profile cases were James Risen & James Rosen.
        HillaryBriss 10y ago
        Thanks for your reply. I read those two links, but, I don't seem to see where Obama jailed any journalists. The stories there appear to be about government employees who gave out information they were not supposed to give out. As far as I can tell, and, please correct me if I'm missing the point, the journalists were not prosecuted in these cases. Do I have that wrong? What am I missing here? Again, thank you for the reply.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- veridies 10y ago
  Student protests are absolutely not censorship. They're a "more speech" answer to statements that the protesters find offensive. If you disagree, fine, but trying to shut up protesters because you think their actions amount to censorship is utterly hypocritical.
  - partiallypro 10y ago
    No one is trying to shut down people who are speaking out that something offends them; people are speaking out against those claiming offense because those people want to change the rules to where they are the only ones who can speak out. That's the inherent irony, which is actually the opposite case of what you are saying. People are offended and are using their free speech in an attempt to end free speech. Those opposing are arguing back (like you're supposed to), not advocating for censorship. Totally different approaches.
  - Tiksi 10y ago
    The protest itself isn't censorship, the goal of it is.
pervycreeper 10y ago
They both stem from similar emotional instincts. It was very canny and apt to identify them together in characterizing the current cultural Zeitgeist.

Trying to draw a line between student protests in western campuses and Vladimir Putin and Erdogan is a stretch.

by reso 10y ago

Trying to draw a line between student protests in western campuses and Vladimir Putin and Erdogan is a stretch.

Both are forms of censorship. If we were to encourage the groping of a woman, it could eventually lead to rape. One is much worse than the other, but that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye or not see their inherent connection. The same applies here. If we allow our intellectual leaders to censor, what's to stop our political leaders to not follow suit?

reso 10y ago
It all depends on how big you think each problem is. I'm quite confident that the events we hear about on campuses are outliers that are presented as the norm, but that's not the perception of most commentators. On the other hand, it seems clear that there is brutal systemic repression in these other states. It seems absurd to compare the repressive power of the Communist Party of China to a liberal student union.
- partiallypro 10y ago
  > I'm quite confident that the events we hear about on campuses are outliers that are presented as the norm Even if you wanted to brush off campuses censoring, you can just look at the upper echelon of the political spectrum and see it's already a problem. President Obama has jailed several journalists in his tenure, more than any other President in U.S. history. We mock Russia, Saudi Arabia, and others for doing the same. Campus censorship is a symptom of a much larger problem.
  - HillaryBriss 10y ago
    > President Obama has jailed several journalists in his tenure, more than any other President in U.S. history. Wait. What? Which journalists has Obama jailed? How many journalists did other presidents jail?
    - partiallypro 10y ago
      https://www.cpj.org/reports/2013/10/obama-and-the-press-us-leaks-surveillance-post-911.php https://www.cpj.org/reports/2013/10/obama-and-the-press-us-l... http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/jake-tapper/cnns-tapper-obama-has-used-espionage-act-more-all-/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/... The high profile cases were James Risen & James Rosen.
      - HillaryBriss 10y ago
        Thanks for your reply. I read those two links, but, I don't seem to see where Obama jailed any journalists. The stories there appear to be about government employees who gave out information they were not supposed to give out. As far as I can tell, and, please correct me if I'm missing the point, the journalists were not prosecuted in these cases. Do I have that wrong? What am I missing here? Again, thank you for the reply.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
veridies 10y ago
Student protests are absolutely not censorship. They're a "more speech" answer to statements that the protesters find offensive. If you disagree, fine, but trying to shut up protesters because you think their actions amount to censorship is utterly hypocritical.
- partiallypro 10y ago
  No one is trying to shut down people who are speaking out that something offends them; people are speaking out against those claiming offense because those people want to change the rules to where they are the only ones who can speak out. That's the inherent irony, which is actually the opposite case of what you are saying. People are offended and are using their free speech in an attempt to end free speech. Those opposing are arguing back (like you're supposed to), not advocating for censorship. Totally different approaches.
- Tiksi 10y ago
  The protest itself isn't censorship, the goal of it is.

pervycreeper 10y ago

They both stem from similar emotional instincts. It was very canny and apt to identify them together in characterizing the current cultural Zeitgeist.