6 ms·

I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade. I'm currently in one of those

by 13of40 10y ago

I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade. I'm currently in one of those weeks where every time I wake up my iPad I have to click through two separate dialogs to tell it that, no, I don't want to install the updated version of iOS it downloaded without asking. Yet everyone is fine with this. I mean, except the Linux guys, I guess.

aluhut 10y ago
"Everyone" meaning Apple fans. A special group on it's own. Known for paying more attention on the curves of the over expensive items they buy.
- merb 10y ago
  I have a Apple iPhone 5 and a Mac (OS X) currently neither of them forced an OS upgrade to me. I always needed to explicitly click the install button. With software its a little bit diffrent, but major/minor OS upgrades i.e. OS X 10.9 > 10.10 > 10.11 (everything between 10.11.1 etc) needed an explicit click and on iOS the same.
  - aluhut 10y ago
    Wouldn't you complain if they'd just pushed it without asking?
- dang 10y ago
  Please don't do this here.
newacct23 10y ago
I don't know about iOS but I have never had a forced upgrade with a mac laptop.
LeoPanthera 10y ago
The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no. There are plenty of people being force-upgraded to 10 who never consented.
- 13of40 10y ago
  As far as I understand it, the auto upgrade happens when you have "give me recommended updates the same way I get important updates" checked in Windows Update. That isn't a default setting - you need to consent to it. Sure, maybe it was a year ago that you clicked it, and they never said a full OS version update was something that would land in that category, but it's not like they're pushing mandatory installs to everyone.
  - JupiterMoon 10y ago
    They just flash a dialogue up with an opt out button. Closing the dialogue is consent to go ahead with the update. Most people close those kind of annoying pop ups without reading the message. So technically MS aren't push a mandatory update - de-facto to millions of people they are though.
    - PretzelFisch 10y ago
      They pop up an information dlg telling you it will be upgraded. clicking x like close does nothing as it should. The lesson to learn is to not enable os auto updates, anywhere.
- ksk 10y ago
  >The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no. Yeah, and then it asks again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.. and again....
  - rootbear 10y ago
    I finally got around to updating my iPhone and iPad and I also found those endless nags very, very off-putting. But what MS has done is much worse, with their upgrade-by-deception tactics. I've lost all interest in Windows 10, not that I had much to begin with.
jeremymcanally 10y ago
Yes, but now they're resorting to (IMO, at least) some dark patterns to essentially force or deceive users into an upgrade, which is not something Apple has done (yet, at least).
userbinator 10y ago
It's not weird, and succinctly explained in one phrase: "If I wanted the Apple way, I'd buy a Mac." People do not want Microsoft to turn into another Google nor Apple. They want MS to be different from the others, so they can actually choose what they want and not get a product that differs from other offerings by nothing more than who made it.
- mfkp 10y ago
  "Think Different"
- cm2187 10y ago
  And in my case there is the added frustration that I will have to switch to another platform which has its own problems (linux). I guess for IT professionals learning linux is a good thing anyway. But I am not an IT professional and I have little appetite to dedicate some time to relearn the basics.
bluthru 10y ago
https://www.tekrevue.com/tip/disable-automatic-app-updates-mac-os-x-mavericks/ https://www.tekrevue.com/tip/disable-automatic-app-updates-m...
- comex 10y ago
  Note that that's for OS X. iOS, for what it's worth, will always check for and download OS updates when certain conditions apply (connected to Wi-Fi and power), with no way to disable it short of DNS hacks - which is obnoxious. All you can do is delete already downloaded updates. And if you ever go through with the update, it's impossible to downgrade: the bootloader forbids it. Both of these are far worse than Windows. But for all of that, it won't actually start the update without getting consent. I guess that makes a big difference.
  - bluthru 10y ago
    I was comparing a desktop OS (Win 10) to a desktop OS (OS X).
    - comex 10y ago
      Fair enough, few would buy an iPhone instead of a PC. But I consider anti-consumer behavior partially a question of ethics, not just a factor in practical buying choices; and I don't think there is a good reason to have different ethical standards for, or generally to separate in such considerations, desktop and mobile OSes, and in particular reject the idea held by some (maybe not you) that the latter are less important as general computing devices because they're for "content consumption" or whatnot. So when comparing Microsoft's behavior to Apple's, to me all their devices are relevant.
FussyZeus 10y ago
> I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade. PATENTLY false. Yes they shove the upgrade down your throat metaphorically pretty hard, it's going to appear on top of the App Store on OS X and all over the iOS one, and it will put a notification on your Settings app, but to my knowledge there is no way for iOS or OS X to initiate a system update on it's own. And we've looked into having our monitor box at work do that so we have one less thing to maintain, it isn't easy.
robocat 10y ago
Previously we could make the choice between stable or evergreen. That choice is disappearing...
cm2187 10y ago
I agree that Apple is becoming hostile to its users. iOS has now a level of nagging for Apple services which is similar to the cheapest PCs full of crapware. Please us Apple music. Please use Apple Pay. Please use iCloud. etc. You have to click and confirm you don't want any of that shit pretty much at every OS update. And their "do you want to update now or do you want to update today" is also unacceptable. I just don't see how that makes it OK for microsoft to do the same.
pessimizer 10y ago
I disagree with your premise. Plenty of people demonize(d) Apple for it, too. I generally hear what Microsoft is doing with Windows 10 described as "moving to the Apple model."
lazaroclapp 10y ago
> except the Linux guys And the BSD guys, and the GNU/Hurd guys, and the ReactOS guys, and the Haiku guys, etc, etc ;) More things in heaven and earth and all that...

by 13of40 10y ago

aluhut 10y ago

"Everyone" meaning Apple fans. A special group on it's own. Known for paying more attention on the curves of the over expensive items they buy.

merb 10y ago
I have a Apple iPhone 5 and a Mac (OS X) currently neither of them forced an OS upgrade to me. I always needed to explicitly click the install button. With software its a little bit diffrent, but major/minor OS upgrades i.e. OS X 10.9 > 10.10 > 10.11 (everything between 10.11.1 etc) needed an explicit click and on iOS the same.
- aluhut 10y ago
  Wouldn't you complain if they'd just pushed it without asking?
dang 10y ago
Please don't do this here.

newacct23 10y ago

I don't know about iOS but I have never had a forced upgrade with a mac laptop.

LeoPanthera 10y ago

The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no. There are plenty of people being force-upgraded to 10 who never consented.

13of40 10y ago
As far as I understand it, the auto upgrade happens when you have "give me recommended updates the same way I get important updates" checked in Windows Update. That isn't a default setting - you need to consent to it. Sure, maybe it was a year ago that you clicked it, and they never said a full OS version update was something that would land in that category, but it's not like they're pushing mandatory installs to everyone.
- JupiterMoon 10y ago
  They just flash a dialogue up with an opt out button. Closing the dialogue is consent to go ahead with the update. Most people close those kind of annoying pop ups without reading the message. So technically MS aren't push a mandatory update - de-facto to millions of people they are though.
  - PretzelFisch 10y ago
    They pop up an information dlg telling you it will be upgraded. clicking x like close does nothing as it should. The lesson to learn is to not enable os auto updates, anywhere.
ksk 10y ago
>The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no. Yeah, and then it asks again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.. and again....
- rootbear 10y ago
  I finally got around to updating my iPhone and iPad and I also found those endless nags very, very off-putting. But what MS has done is much worse, with their upgrade-by-deception tactics. I've lost all interest in Windows 10, not that I had much to begin with.

jeremymcanally 10y ago

Yes, but now they're resorting to (IMO, at least) some dark patterns to essentially force or deceive users into an upgrade, which is not something Apple has done (yet, at least).

userbinator 10y ago

It's not weird, and succinctly explained in one phrase: "If I wanted the Apple way, I'd buy a Mac." People do not want Microsoft to turn into another Google nor Apple. They want MS to be different from the others, so they can actually choose what they want and not get a product that differs from other offerings by nothing more than who made it.

mfkp 10y ago
"Think Different"
cm2187 10y ago
And in my case there is the added frustration that I will have to switch to another platform which has its own problems (linux). I guess for IT professionals learning linux is a good thing anyway. But I am not an IT professional and I have little appetite to dedicate some time to relearn the basics.

bluthru 10y ago

https://www.tekrevue.com/tip/disable-automatic-app-updates-mac-os-x-mavericks/ https://www.tekrevue.com/tip/disable-automatic-app-updates-m...

comex 10y ago
Note that that's for OS X. iOS, for what it's worth, will always check for and download OS updates when certain conditions apply (connected to Wi-Fi and power), with no way to disable it short of DNS hacks - which is obnoxious. All you can do is delete already downloaded updates. And if you ever go through with the update, it's impossible to downgrade: the bootloader forbids it. Both of these are far worse than Windows. But for all of that, it won't actually start the update without getting consent. I guess that makes a big difference.
- bluthru 10y ago
  I was comparing a desktop OS (Win 10) to a desktop OS (OS X).
  - comex 10y ago
    Fair enough, few would buy an iPhone instead of a PC. But I consider anti-consumer behavior partially a question of ethics, not just a factor in practical buying choices; and I don't think there is a good reason to have different ethical standards for, or generally to separate in such considerations, desktop and mobile OSes, and in particular reject the idea held by some (maybe not you) that the latter are less important as general computing devices because they're for "content consumption" or whatnot. So when comparing Microsoft's behavior to Apple's, to me all their devices are relevant.

FussyZeus 10y ago

> I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade. PATENTLY false. Yes they shove the upgrade down your throat metaphorically pretty hard, it's going to appear on top of the App Store on OS X and all over the iOS one, and it will put a notification on your Settings app, but to my knowledge there is no way for iOS or OS X to initiate a system update on it's own. And we've looked into having our monitor box at work do that so we have one less thing to maintain, it isn't easy.

robocat 10y ago

Previously we could make the choice between stable or evergreen. That choice is disappearing...

cm2187 10y ago

I agree that Apple is becoming hostile to its users. iOS has now a level of nagging for Apple services which is similar to the cheapest PCs full of crapware. Please us Apple music. Please use Apple Pay. Please use iCloud. etc. You have to click and confirm you don't want any of that shit pretty much at every OS update. And their "do you want to update now or do you want to update today" is also unacceptable. I just don't see how that makes it OK for microsoft to do the same.

pessimizer 10y ago

I disagree with your premise. Plenty of people demonize(d) Apple for it, too. I generally hear what Microsoft is doing with Windows 10 described as "moving to the Apple model."

lazaroclapp 10y ago

> except the Linux guys And the BSD guys, and the GNU/Hurd guys, and the ReactOS guys, and the Haiku guys, etc, etc ;) More things in heaven and earth and all that...