4 ms·

Well he also said that Jews are devils, the mixing of the races is an abomination and that homosexuality is a white man’s disease.

by adnam 10y ago

kelukelugames 10y ago
Do you have aa citation?
- Keyframe 10y ago
  It's widely known: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk
  - kelukelugames 10y ago
    The full quote refers to all whites. I agree it is inappropriate by today's standards, but a black man saying whites are the devil in 1969? I mean...
    - hartpuff 10y ago
      Ali's friend, Malcolm X, hardly an "Uncle Tom" - as Ali disgracefully called another friend he betrayed, Joe Frazier - had turned away from the anti-white racism of the NOI by the early 60s (and been killed by the NOI as a result), so what's so special about 1969 that excuses a supposedly intelligent man continuing to mindlessly parrot their inane racist beliefs?
      - EpicEng 10y ago
        He had been treated poorly by whites his entire life. I'm sure you can appreciate how that would affect a person. He was also very young and became more tempered as he grew older.
        pavalercci 10y ago
        I'm sure you can appreciate that you know absolutely nothing about how Muhammed Ali was treated by whites his entire life. Simply assuming that he was treated badly and therefore justified in his blanket discrimination towards others is academically lazy and ethically unacceptable.
        unclebucknasty 10y ago
        >you know absolutely nothing about how Muhammed Ali was treated by whites his entire life This rebuttal only has merit if you're being pedantically literal. Surely, you're aware of the prevailing racial conditions in the U.S. and Louisville in particular during Ali's upbringing and beyond. He was, by definition, treated badly by an entire system that was not set up by black people, yet overtly oppressed black people. Surely, you're aware of how the conditions of the time would have impacted Ali himself, his family, and those in his community. Surely, you can see how members of such a community might feel some anger and resentment. What's lazy here is your pedantic use of demagoguery to make enlightened-sounding, but vapid statements that berate others for some supposed discrimination that exists only in a willfully myopic bubble of your own creation.
        EpicEng 10y ago
        >Simply assuming I'm not assuming anything; has life has been documented time and time again. We information from him personally, those who knew him, and we know exactly what Louisville Kentucky was like during his lifetime. Are you saying that unless I was there personally I know "absolutely nothing" about his life? Get real and get over yourself. Ali was my favorite sports figure as a child and remains so. I have consumed everything I can find about the guy. I'm willing to bet I know more than you on the matter, but if I don't, why don't you share some of your insights with us as well as the rest of the world? >academically lazy and ethically unacceptable Yeesh. I'm not sure what 'academic and ethical' standards you believe people on a forum should be held to, but again; get over yourself. I'm sure you think you're being extremely clever and deep with your comments here, but in reality you're adding absolutely nothing to the conversation with your overly pedantic comments which show nothing but your ignorance of history. I also find it pretty hilarious that you seem to have created a throwaway account purely to comment in this thread.
      - update 10y ago
        I don't know about Frazier, but on Malcolm X, Ali said: Ali: Turning my back on Malcolm was one of the mistakes that I regret most in my life. I wish I’d been able to tell Malcolm I was sorry, that he was right about so many things. But he was killed before I got the chance. He was a visionary ahead of us all. …I might never have become a Muslim if it hadn’t been for Malcolm. If I could go back and do it over again, I would never have turned my back on him.
    - pavalercci 10y ago
      Make sure you use that same logic next time you are in a discussion with someone about Nazis in the 1940's.
      - _nedR 10y ago
        I am going to leave this quote from reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4mhwyk/muhammad_ali_when_they_told_him_to_participate_on/d3vtjeu https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4mhwyk/muhammad_ali...) here. Make of it what you will : "People saying this is racist are misunderstanding that the problem with racism is not just some words, it's the power balance dynamic that backs them. A black man saying white people are the devil, has no power to actually do much damage, even in 2016. A white man saying that black man is the devil, has during our history been able to: imprison the person on trumped up charges, have their family bought and sold, beaten often to death, hung them, tar and feather, run them out of town, and refuse them housing. To pretend that there is an equality between two statements from people of different skin colors in current and past american society is to be willfully blind to the difference between them."
        kelukelugames 10y ago
        "How can white privilege be real when Obama can say the n-word but I can't?"
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- H0n3sty 10y ago
  Muhammad Ali on Race Mixing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_QoxMhHTIg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_QoxMhHTIg
ralmidani 10y ago
I'm not sure about when he said what, but Muhammad Ali first joined the so-called Nation of Islam, then was introduced to Islam by Malcolm X (also a former NOI member).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
Blahah 10y ago
> he also said that Jews are devils he actually quoted the Bible and said "Jews and gentiles are devils", according to the context of the interview in which he said it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk
braythwayt 10y ago
Upvoted. This is an important thing to acknowledge about “heroes” and “role models.” People are complicated. Their relationship with the society that shaped them is complicated, their relationship with society fifty, one hundred, or centuries later is even more complicated. I do not excuse Muhammad Ali’s views on certain subjects because he was amazing in other respects. I don’t give an overall score. I admire and respect certain things he said and did, I politely disagree with other things he said and did, and I reject outright certain things he said and did. I still feel he is “The Greatest,” but I do not pretend he was perfect, and if you conjured him up today in full possession of his speech and mental faculties, I would not hesitate to argue with him about issues like homosexuality. I’d do the same thing with MLK. I’d harangue George Washington about owning slaves. I empathize with how they might have formed their views. I understand how the forces of their times and experienced helped shape their perspective. But empathizing with them does not mean agreeing with them. It’s essential to see the whole person and avoid falling into a simple black/white/good/bad/progressive/conservative trap. And it’s essential to disentangle empathy from agreement or endorsement.
- kelukelugames 10y ago
  I want to add one thing. People change their views. For example, the majority of the US population went from against to pro marriage equality. Washington never would have altered his views on slavery, because society did not evolve during his lifetime. However, much changed in Ali's lifetime. He might no longer believe the things he said in his 20s. I hope no one judges me by all of the stupid things I said in my 20s.
dosgonlogs 10y ago
He said that before he converted to Islam, while he was a part of Nation of Islam (which is not Islam at all). Nation of Islam also teaches you that all White people are Devils (not just Jews), and that Fard Mohammed is God, and a bunch of other stuff that has nothing to do with Islam (since worshipping anything/anyone other than Allah is shirk, a sin that sends you to hell if you don't repent from it before you die).
EpicEng 10y ago
>said that Jews are devils Not quite, but you're right; he was far from perfect. He cheated on his wife numerous times as well, and many of his views changed as he grew older. I think we can look up to what he did right and still acknowledge that he was flawed like the rest of us. I hope no one judges me solely by the things I did when I was in my twenties.
iconjack 10y ago
I think if give the conversation where these came from another listen, you'll agree that your summary of his statements doesn't really capture the truth of the man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyad99ncEp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyad99ncEp0

Well he also said that Jews are devils, the mixing of the races is an abomination and that homosexuality is a white man’s disease.

by adnam 10y ago

Well he also said that Jews are devils, the mixing of the races is an abomination and that homosexuality is a white man’s disease.

kelukelugames 10y ago

Do you have aa citation?

Keyframe 10y ago
It's widely known: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk
- kelukelugames 10y ago
  The full quote refers to all whites. I agree it is inappropriate by today's standards, but a black man saying whites are the devil in 1969? I mean...
  - hartpuff 10y ago
    Ali's friend, Malcolm X, hardly an "Uncle Tom" - as Ali disgracefully called another friend he betrayed, Joe Frazier - had turned away from the anti-white racism of the NOI by the early 60s (and been killed by the NOI as a result), so what's so special about 1969 that excuses a supposedly intelligent man continuing to mindlessly parrot their inane racist beliefs?
    - EpicEng 10y ago
      He had been treated poorly by whites his entire life. I'm sure you can appreciate how that would affect a person. He was also very young and became more tempered as he grew older.
      - pavalercci 10y ago
        I'm sure you can appreciate that you know absolutely nothing about how Muhammed Ali was treated by whites his entire life. Simply assuming that he was treated badly and therefore justified in his blanket discrimination towards others is academically lazy and ethically unacceptable.
        unclebucknasty 10y ago
        >you know absolutely nothing about how Muhammed Ali was treated by whites his entire life This rebuttal only has merit if you're being pedantically literal. Surely, you're aware of the prevailing racial conditions in the U.S. and Louisville in particular during Ali's upbringing and beyond. He was, by definition, treated badly by an entire system that was not set up by black people, yet overtly oppressed black people. Surely, you're aware of how the conditions of the time would have impacted Ali himself, his family, and those in his community. Surely, you can see how members of such a community might feel some anger and resentment. What's lazy here is your pedantic use of demagoguery to make enlightened-sounding, but vapid statements that berate others for some supposed discrimination that exists only in a willfully myopic bubble of your own creation.
        EpicEng 10y ago
        >Simply assuming I'm not assuming anything; has life has been documented time and time again. We information from him personally, those who knew him, and we know exactly what Louisville Kentucky was like during his lifetime. Are you saying that unless I was there personally I know "absolutely nothing" about his life? Get real and get over yourself. Ali was my favorite sports figure as a child and remains so. I have consumed everything I can find about the guy. I'm willing to bet I know more than you on the matter, but if I don't, why don't you share some of your insights with us as well as the rest of the world? >academically lazy and ethically unacceptable Yeesh. I'm not sure what 'academic and ethical' standards you believe people on a forum should be held to, but again; get over yourself. I'm sure you think you're being extremely clever and deep with your comments here, but in reality you're adding absolutely nothing to the conversation with your overly pedantic comments which show nothing but your ignorance of history. I also find it pretty hilarious that you seem to have created a throwaway account purely to comment in this thread.
    - update 10y ago
      I don't know about Frazier, but on Malcolm X, Ali said: Ali: Turning my back on Malcolm was one of the mistakes that I regret most in my life. I wish I’d been able to tell Malcolm I was sorry, that he was right about so many things. But he was killed before I got the chance. He was a visionary ahead of us all. …I might never have become a Muslim if it hadn’t been for Malcolm. If I could go back and do it over again, I would never have turned my back on him.
  - pavalercci 10y ago
    Make sure you use that same logic next time you are in a discussion with someone about Nazis in the 1940's.
    - _nedR 10y ago
      I am going to leave this quote from reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4mhwyk/muhammad_ali_when_they_told_him_to_participate_on/d3vtjeu https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4mhwyk/muhammad_ali...) here. Make of it what you will : "People saying this is racist are misunderstanding that the problem with racism is not just some words, it's the power balance dynamic that backs them. A black man saying white people are the devil, has no power to actually do much damage, even in 2016. A white man saying that black man is the devil, has during our history been able to: imprison the person on trumped up charges, have their family bought and sold, beaten often to death, hung them, tar and feather, run them out of town, and refuse them housing. To pretend that there is an equality between two statements from people of different skin colors in current and past american society is to be willfully blind to the difference between them."
      - kelukelugames 10y ago
        "How can white privilege be real when Obama can say the n-word but I can't?"
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
H0n3sty 10y ago
Muhammad Ali on Race Mixing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_QoxMhHTIg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_QoxMhHTIg

ralmidani 10y ago

I'm not sure about when he said what, but Muhammad Ali first joined the so-called Nation of Islam, then was introduced to Islam by Malcolm X (also a former NOI member).

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

Blahah 10y ago

> he also said that Jews are devils he actually quoted the Bible and said "Jews and gentiles are devils", according to the context of the interview in which he said it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk

braythwayt 10y ago

Upvoted. This is an important thing to acknowledge about “heroes” and “role models.” People are complicated. Their relationship with the society that shaped them is complicated, their relationship with society fifty, one hundred, or centuries later is even more complicated. I do not excuse Muhammad Ali’s views on certain subjects because he was amazing in other respects. I don’t give an overall score. I admire and respect certain things he said and did, I politely disagree with other things he said and did, and I reject outright certain things he said and did. I still feel he is “The Greatest,” but I do not pretend he was perfect, and if you conjured him up today in full possession of his speech and mental faculties, I would not hesitate to argue with him about issues like homosexuality. I’d do the same thing with MLK. I’d harangue George Washington about owning slaves. I empathize with how they might have formed their views. I understand how the forces of their times and experienced helped shape their perspective. But empathizing with them does not mean agreeing with them. It’s essential to see the whole person and avoid falling into a simple black/white/good/bad/progressive/conservative trap. And it’s essential to disentangle empathy from agreement or endorsement.

kelukelugames 10y ago
I want to add one thing. People change their views. For example, the majority of the US population went from against to pro marriage equality. Washington never would have altered his views on slavery, because society did not evolve during his lifetime. However, much changed in Ali's lifetime. He might no longer believe the things he said in his 20s. I hope no one judges me by all of the stupid things I said in my 20s.

dosgonlogs 10y ago

He said that before he converted to Islam, while he was a part of Nation of Islam (which is not Islam at all). Nation of Islam also teaches you that all White people are Devils (not just Jews), and that Fard Mohammed is God, and a bunch of other stuff that has nothing to do with Islam (since worshipping anything/anyone other than Allah is shirk, a sin that sends you to hell if you don't repent from it before you die).

EpicEng 10y ago

>said that Jews are devils Not quite, but you're right; he was far from perfect. He cheated on his wife numerous times as well, and many of his views changed as he grew older. I think we can look up to what he did right and still acknowledge that he was flawed like the rest of us. I hope no one judges me solely by the things I did when I was in my twenties.

iconjack 10y ago

I think if give the conversation where these came from another listen, you'll agree that your summary of his statements doesn't really capture the truth of the man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyad99ncEp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyad99ncEp0