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As you might guess I have heard similar argument a lot already. I don't doubt that switching to emacs can be worth it, that's why I am asking about making it ea

As you might guess I have heard similar argument a lot already. I don't doubt that switching to emacs can be worth it, that's why I am asking about making it easier for me to start with it. I just don't see why I have to learn a new keymapping when nearly every new application out there uses a keymapping which is rather similar to the one which I am used to. I'm not looking for emacs to simulate VS. I'm really only interested in mapping the behavior of the mouse and the keyboard to common shortcuts. And you didn't really make an argument why learning another set of combos should be preferred to that. As it seems you rather also mapped it to your liking... So yes - I want to learn emacs. But no - I don't want to learn that specific keymapping, my current one works fine and every time I tried some emacs tutorial I was appealed by the 3 key combos after a while so much that I did give up. And because I'm not so deep in emacs I don't know yet how to do that, so I hoped that maybe someone else already did it.

marvin 19y ago
Long post ahead. It's not really that hard...maybe Emacs isn't for you, but I was in your place just six months ago, when I started my CS studies and heard that Emacs could make your life easier. I am still a newbie, but I have started loving the editor. Here's how to learn. You need a good cheat sheet, printed and preferably taped to your monitor. You don't need the most arcane keymappings, but you'll need document navigation, search/replace, the escape commands (abort, save, quit), set mark/region, kill and yank (cut and paste, that is). And maybe after a while a quick reference on how to create and kill buffers. I am sorry I have to present it like this, but the keybindings are IMHO the best thing about Emacs when you're a newbie. Don't use the arrow keys! I know that sounds rather ludicrous, but it will save you hours of hand motion in the course of a year. And if at some point you miss a document navigation mapping, it is likely already included in the standard distribution and hence only a web search away. Try for instance http://astro.berkeley.edu/~robishaw/comp/emacs.crib.html http://astro.berkeley.edu/~robishaw/comp/emacs.crib.html. Actually, you could probably manage it with just document navigation, kill/yank and save/quit. Those will teach you how to hate your mouse. I love it when there's something I can do exclusively in Emacs, because it is so much easier to get my thoughts into bytes. I don't have to worry about any stupid motoric kung-fu. My hands never leave the keyboard. If you're a newbie, Emacs won't serve you well for all kinds of work. I still prefer Eclipse for Java stuff, because it has a much gentler learning curve for getting debuggers, auto-complete, inspectors and syntax checking in order. You can do all those things in Emacs, but you have to be a lot more dedicated than I have been thus far. For scripting work, however (and that includes just about any Python work et. al.) it is glorious. Emacs' revered customization won't be of much value to you when you're a newbie (you have to download an emacs lisp file just to change the editor's colors, for instance), but hopefully such details will keep out of your hair until you are familiar enough in the environment to tackle them. My Emacs looks really pretty now, so you know it can be done. Getting the book that was mentioned seems like an excellent idea. I have been wondering myself whether there was one. Good books make learning a hell of a lot easier than scouring the web. Good luck to you, I hope you find a solution that makes you happy :) [Actually, now that I come to think of it, it would be nice if someone made an Emacs distribution with tighter integration to the windowing system. With menu-bars for most of the commands, easier configuration dialogs and all that stuff. Maybe most emacs developers don't care for these things, but it is very intimidating to have to look up every unfamiliar keybinding on the web. Just pulling down a menu and reading it would make the editor much less intimidating. I think the reason most programmers scorn Emacs is that it frightens them, just like LISP.]
- mechanical_fish 19y ago
  O'Reilly's Learning Emacs. I should just make a shortcut that recommends this book. And one secret to emacs is to learn the hell out of the control-H commands. C-h k, C-h a, C-h f, C-h v, C-h m -- the results of those commands, and the docs that you can get to from there, really can help you figure out which key you're looking for and what a particular wierd key-combo does.
- coffeeaddicted 19y ago
  Well, thanks it's sort of nice to get all those advice. Just... I'm not exactly a newbie. Like mentioned above I already have worked a decade with VS (and started programming more than 20 years ago). And I'm used to those keybindings very much by now and not only have no problem with them, but I actually do like them. Really. Not the least because nearly identical bindings work in nearly every single modern application on Windows, Linux and even on most Applications on the Web. The reason I had to leave VS behind is that it's not available for other systems and I also I didn't like VS so much anyway beside it's editor and it's debugger. I can live with smaller changes - so I have for example no problem working with kate and CodeBlocks. But they are still not as powerful as the VS editor had been. Emacs probably is - from all I heard it's even way beyond all of them. But for all the power it might offer, for a start I would already be glad with simple familiar keymappings :-) I think people who had to work with VS and come from emacs (that stuff happens sometimes) know the feeling and therefore emacs keybindings exist for VS. I'm just looking for something the other way round. Though by now I guess that it's not yet available. If I like the editor afterwards, well maybe I learn the original keymappings then also someday. But for a start I would just prefer it to work with the keys I like and know. And I'm not afraid of Lisp - not the least bit ;-)
  - hollerith 19y ago
    I have used Emacs every day since 1991, have never run Windows or Mac and hardly ever use Windows or Mac, and even I agree with you about the keybinding. You should refuse to learn a new set of keybindings because the set you already know is the set that well over 90% of the world and 90% of the world's desktop applications use. (I have not used this CUA mode of Emacs that other commenters mention.)
danprager 19y ago
cua-mode (Common User Access) gives you Ctrl+X / C / V as per Windows, and mouse highlighting, apparently without interfering with standard emacs key-bindings too much: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/CUA-Bindings.html http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/CUA...

marvin 19y ago

Long post ahead. It's not really that hard...maybe Emacs isn't for you, but I was in your place just six months ago, when I started my CS studies and heard that Emacs could make your life easier. I am still a newbie, but I have started loving the editor. Here's how to learn. You need a good cheat sheet, printed and preferably taped to your monitor. You don't need the most arcane keymappings, but you'll need document navigation, search/replace, the escape commands (abort, save, quit), set mark/region, kill and yank (cut and paste, that is). And maybe after a while a quick reference on how to create and kill buffers. I am sorry I have to present it like this, but the keybindings are IMHO the best thing about Emacs when you're a newbie. Don't use the arrow keys! I know that sounds rather ludicrous, but it will save you hours of hand motion in the course of a year. And if at some point you miss a document navigation mapping, it is likely already included in the standard distribution and hence only a web search away. Try for instance http://astro.berkeley.edu/~robishaw/comp/emacs.crib.html http://astro.berkeley.edu/~robishaw/comp/emacs.crib.html. Actually, you could probably manage it with just document navigation, kill/yank and save/quit. Those will teach you how to hate your mouse. I love it when there's something I can do exclusively in Emacs, because it is so much easier to get my thoughts into bytes. I don't have to worry about any stupid motoric kung-fu. My hands never leave the keyboard. If you're a newbie, Emacs won't serve you well for all kinds of work. I still prefer Eclipse for Java stuff, because it has a much gentler learning curve for getting debuggers, auto-complete, inspectors and syntax checking in order. You can do all those things in Emacs, but you have to be a lot more dedicated than I have been thus far. For scripting work, however (and that includes just about any Python work et. al.) it is glorious. Emacs' revered customization won't be of much value to you when you're a newbie (you have to download an emacs lisp file just to change the editor's colors, for instance), but hopefully such details will keep out of your hair until you are familiar enough in the environment to tackle them. My Emacs looks really pretty now, so you know it can be done. Getting the book that was mentioned seems like an excellent idea. I have been wondering myself whether there was one. Good books make learning a hell of a lot easier than scouring the web. Good luck to you, I hope you find a solution that makes you happy :) [Actually, now that I come to think of it, it would be nice if someone made an Emacs distribution with tighter integration to the windowing system. With menu-bars for most of the commands, easier configuration dialogs and all that stuff. Maybe most emacs developers don't care for these things, but it is very intimidating to have to look up every unfamiliar keybinding on the web. Just pulling down a menu and reading it would make the editor much less intimidating. I think the reason most programmers scorn Emacs is that it frightens them, just like LISP.]

mechanical_fish 19y ago
O'Reilly's Learning Emacs. I should just make a shortcut that recommends this book. And one secret to emacs is to learn the hell out of the control-H commands. C-h k, C-h a, C-h f, C-h v, C-h m -- the results of those commands, and the docs that you can get to from there, really can help you figure out which key you're looking for and what a particular wierd key-combo does.
coffeeaddicted 19y ago
Well, thanks it's sort of nice to get all those advice. Just... I'm not exactly a newbie. Like mentioned above I already have worked a decade with VS (and started programming more than 20 years ago). And I'm used to those keybindings very much by now and not only have no problem with them, but I actually do like them. Really. Not the least because nearly identical bindings work in nearly every single modern application on Windows, Linux and even on most Applications on the Web. The reason I had to leave VS behind is that it's not available for other systems and I also I didn't like VS so much anyway beside it's editor and it's debugger. I can live with smaller changes - so I have for example no problem working with kate and CodeBlocks. But they are still not as powerful as the VS editor had been. Emacs probably is - from all I heard it's even way beyond all of them. But for all the power it might offer, for a start I would already be glad with simple familiar keymappings :-) I think people who had to work with VS and come from emacs (that stuff happens sometimes) know the feeling and therefore emacs keybindings exist for VS. I'm just looking for something the other way round. Though by now I guess that it's not yet available. If I like the editor afterwards, well maybe I learn the original keymappings then also someday. But for a start I would just prefer it to work with the keys I like and know. And I'm not afraid of Lisp - not the least bit ;-)
- hollerith 19y ago
  I have used Emacs every day since 1991, have never run Windows or Mac and hardly ever use Windows or Mac, and even I agree with you about the keybinding. You should refuse to learn a new set of keybindings because the set you already know is the set that well over 90% of the world and 90% of the world's desktop applications use. (I have not used this CUA mode of Emacs that other commenters mention.)

danprager 19y ago

cua-mode (Common User Access) gives you Ctrl+X / C / V as per Windows, and mouse highlighting, apparently without interfering with standard emacs key-bindings too much: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/CUA-Bindings.html http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/CUA...