5 ms·

Norway is culturally optimized for safe equilibrium. America is culturally optimized for risky advancement. It's pretty starkly different and makes direct singl

Norway is culturally optimized for safe equilibrium. America is culturally optimized for risky advancement. It's pretty starkly different and makes direct single-variable comparisons into shallow exercises in meaninglessness

fleitz 10y ago
It's also much less diverse than America.
- adamnemecek 10y ago
  How's that relevant?
  - larsiusprime 10y ago
    The more opinions there are from different people the harder it is to reach consensus?
    - adamnemecek 10y ago
      Are we talking about ideological diversity or ethnical diversity?
      - larsiusprime 10y ago
        I'm talking about the former, the latter i guess is at least somewhat correlated with differing opinions too. Reaaly its the vast difference in size that matters -- USA has SO many differing constituencies with differing needs and wants and opinions. Norway is a municipal government by comparison.
        adamnemecek 10y ago
        How do you measure ideological diversity? Also how do different parts of the US have different needs?
        larsiusprime 10y ago
        I don't mean to offend, but is this a serious question? Ideological diversity can be measured by simply conducting public opinion polls on a range of public policy issues (social, economic, foreign, domestic, etc etc). This is a pretty well established science. Add in the distribution of said opinions -- a lot of different opinions in about the same mix everywhere is much different from large concentrated enclaves in different geographic regions (ie the Big Sort[1]). As for different needs, before we even get into ideology simple geography dictates a lot already. California has a lot of forest fires, Louisiana and Texas have a lot of floods, New England has a lot of snow. Then you get into urban vs. rural -- America has some of the most vast expanses of rural land and many of the world's biggest cities. Urban areas have very different needs from rural ones. THEN you get into the differing needs of the peoples themselves which is affected by a million different variables. Education levels. Income levels. Health. Languages spoken in different regions. Populations with many recent immigrants have differing legal and social needs from populations of ninth generation native-born citizens. And on and on and on. [1] http://www.thebigsort.com/home.php http://www.thebigsort.com/home.php
        adamnemecek 10y ago
        I feel like you are pulling the discussion in an unrelated direction. You seem to be implying that the US is the only place with diversity and that that somehow is an excuse for the US not having social security measures common in other countries. Also what is the range of opinions in the US and how does it compare with the range of opinions in Norway? > THEN you get into the differing needs of the peoples themselves which is affected by a million different variables. Education levels. Income levels. Health. Languages spoken in different regions. Populations with many recent immigrants have differing legal and social needs from populations of ninth generation native-born citizens. And on and on and on. But are these requirements really that fundamentally different?
        SCAQTony 10y ago
        I agree: I believe if you look at average incomes, rapid transit, and geography within a given state or city, you would definitely see different needs. The average income in San Francisco, which has very good rapid transit solutions is $83k. The average income in Lancaster, Ca (a city at the edge of the Mojave) has an average household income of $51k. Busses are its rapid transit du jour. People need cars there, cheap cars, and they drive far each day. Alabama, Kentucky, New Mexico, could the cities therein afford an electric car?
  - badsock 10y ago
    It's dog whistle for "Norway doesn't have black people"
    - fleitz 10y ago
      No, it's dog whistle for Norway is full of Norwegians. https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=norway%20ethnic%20groups%20percentage https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&es... Ethnic groups. Norwegian 94.4% (includes Sami, about 60,000), other European 3.6%, other 2% (2007 estimate) Of whom 80% belong to one religious denomination Religions. Church of Norway (Evangelical Lutheran - official) 82.1%, other Christian 3.9%, Muslim 2.3%, Roman Catholic 1.8%, other 2.4%, unspecified 7.5% (2011 est.) Not even a mix of 'white people', not even Baptists and Methodists, just Norwegian Lutherans.
larsiusprime 10y ago
Norway is also tiny and SOVEREIGN. Any similarly inclined USA state must answer to the other 49.
- rpgmaker 10y ago
  How so? What stops any state in the US from doing similar things? Genuine question. California for example routinely establishes new and stricter (compared to other US states) environmental rules governing emissions and whatnot. Legalizing pot is similarly fairly out of the mainstream and it is being done independently by several states.
  - barney54 10y ago
    The Clean Air Act allows the federal government to give CA the ability to set alternative standards for car emission controls, but it isn't likely it allows CA to ban all fueled vehicles.
    - jdavis703 10y ago
      They could almost certainly make the price of gas so expensive via taxes that it effectively bans them though.
      - larsiusprime 10y ago
        ...aaaand the federal government (via congress, the executive, or the courts) could find some way to intervene and challenge that and hold it up indefinitely.
  - larsiusprime 10y ago
    > Legalizing pot is similarly fairly out of the mainstream and it is being done independently by several states. And for a while those states were subject to ongoing raids from the federal government. The Obama administration has held off, but the legal framework that justifies said raids is very much in place. If opinions blow back the other way they could resume any time. When you're not sovereign, then your sovereign can tell you what you can and can't do. If you're mostly on their side, it's not a problem, but there's no guarantee it will stay that way forever. Say a conservative supreme court comes to power and says, "Yeah, pot is totally banned and states can't opt out of it." End of discussion.

fleitz 10y ago

It's also much less diverse than America.

adamnemecek 10y ago
How's that relevant?
- larsiusprime 10y ago
  The more opinions there are from different people the harder it is to reach consensus?
  - adamnemecek 10y ago
    Are we talking about ideological diversity or ethnical diversity?
    - larsiusprime 10y ago
      I'm talking about the former, the latter i guess is at least somewhat correlated with differing opinions too. Reaaly its the vast difference in size that matters -- USA has SO many differing constituencies with differing needs and wants and opinions. Norway is a municipal government by comparison.
      - adamnemecek 10y ago
        How do you measure ideological diversity? Also how do different parts of the US have different needs?
        larsiusprime 10y ago
        I don't mean to offend, but is this a serious question? Ideological diversity can be measured by simply conducting public opinion polls on a range of public policy issues (social, economic, foreign, domestic, etc etc). This is a pretty well established science. Add in the distribution of said opinions -- a lot of different opinions in about the same mix everywhere is much different from large concentrated enclaves in different geographic regions (ie the Big Sort[1]). As for different needs, before we even get into ideology simple geography dictates a lot already. California has a lot of forest fires, Louisiana and Texas have a lot of floods, New England has a lot of snow. Then you get into urban vs. rural -- America has some of the most vast expanses of rural land and many of the world's biggest cities. Urban areas have very different needs from rural ones. THEN you get into the differing needs of the peoples themselves which is affected by a million different variables. Education levels. Income levels. Health. Languages spoken in different regions. Populations with many recent immigrants have differing legal and social needs from populations of ninth generation native-born citizens. And on and on and on. [1] http://www.thebigsort.com/home.php http://www.thebigsort.com/home.php
        adamnemecek 10y ago
        I feel like you are pulling the discussion in an unrelated direction. You seem to be implying that the US is the only place with diversity and that that somehow is an excuse for the US not having social security measures common in other countries. Also what is the range of opinions in the US and how does it compare with the range of opinions in Norway? > THEN you get into the differing needs of the peoples themselves which is affected by a million different variables. Education levels. Income levels. Health. Languages spoken in different regions. Populations with many recent immigrants have differing legal and social needs from populations of ninth generation native-born citizens. And on and on and on. But are these requirements really that fundamentally different?
      - SCAQTony 10y ago
        I agree: I believe if you look at average incomes, rapid transit, and geography within a given state or city, you would definitely see different needs. The average income in San Francisco, which has very good rapid transit solutions is $83k. The average income in Lancaster, Ca (a city at the edge of the Mojave) has an average household income of $51k. Busses are its rapid transit du jour. People need cars there, cheap cars, and they drive far each day. Alabama, Kentucky, New Mexico, could the cities therein afford an electric car?
- badsock 10y ago
  It's dog whistle for "Norway doesn't have black people"
  - fleitz 10y ago
    No, it's dog whistle for Norway is full of Norwegians. https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=norway%20ethnic%20groups%20percentage https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&es... Ethnic groups. Norwegian 94.4% (includes Sami, about 60,000), other European 3.6%, other 2% (2007 estimate) Of whom 80% belong to one religious denomination Religions. Church of Norway (Evangelical Lutheran - official) 82.1%, other Christian 3.9%, Muslim 2.3%, Roman Catholic 1.8%, other 2.4%, unspecified 7.5% (2011 est.) Not even a mix of 'white people', not even Baptists and Methodists, just Norwegian Lutherans.

larsiusprime 10y ago

Norway is also tiny and SOVEREIGN. Any similarly inclined USA state must answer to the other 49.

rpgmaker 10y ago
How so? What stops any state in the US from doing similar things? Genuine question. California for example routinely establishes new and stricter (compared to other US states) environmental rules governing emissions and whatnot. Legalizing pot is similarly fairly out of the mainstream and it is being done independently by several states.
- barney54 10y ago
  The Clean Air Act allows the federal government to give CA the ability to set alternative standards for car emission controls, but it isn't likely it allows CA to ban all fueled vehicles.
  - jdavis703 10y ago
    They could almost certainly make the price of gas so expensive via taxes that it effectively bans them though.
    - larsiusprime 10y ago
      ...aaaand the federal government (via congress, the executive, or the courts) could find some way to intervene and challenge that and hold it up indefinitely.
- larsiusprime 10y ago
  > Legalizing pot is similarly fairly out of the mainstream and it is being done independently by several states. And for a while those states were subject to ongoing raids from the federal government. The Obama administration has held off, but the legal framework that justifies said raids is very much in place. If opinions blow back the other way they could resume any time. When you're not sovereign, then your sovereign can tell you what you can and can't do. If you're mostly on their side, it's not a problem, but there's no guarantee it will stay that way forever. Say a conservative supreme court comes to power and says, "Yeah, pot is totally banned and states can't opt out of it." End of discussion.