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We turned down the help because it wouldn't have done any good. The fire was too large for people to put out. Only rain can kill it now. Believe me, we didn'

We turned down the help because it wouldn't have done any good. The fire was too large for people to put out. Only rain can kill it now. Believe me, we didn't turn down help out of pride. We have a ton of experience dealing with these things. We know when a fire is fightable, and when it isn't.

vehementi 10y ago
I love how everyone else is just inventing shit about foreign policy. Folks y'all can talk good about hacking but it doesn't mean your armchair intuition is right about specialized issues in other countries
- redthrowaway 10y ago
  At any given point in any given summer, a large chunk of the country is on fire. That's the reality of having a massive landmass covered in boreal forest. The consequence of that is that we have a well funded, professional forest fire service that is among the best in the world at what they do. If accepting American or Russian help would have helped save Canadian homes and businesses, we would have. The South Africans are here for diplomatic reasons more than anything, and they arrived long after the critical period when we were trying to protect property and lives. This isn't the California wildfires. It's not threatening populated areas anymore. It's burning in a vast expanse of unpopulated subarctic forest. It's fine. The damage is done; now we wait for it to burn out while keeping an eye out for the next one.
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    > The South Africans are here for diplomatic reasons more than anything So it's just a Trudeau-like "diversity" hire or something? Not to say that in a mean way, just that they are not the most qualified and have only received minimal training. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't being praised as "South African government sees it as repaying a debt to the Canadian people for their support for the anti-apartheid struggle"[1]. Let's just call it an aid program and be done? 1: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/300-south-african-firefighters-are-trained-and-headed-to-fort-mcmurray/article30197182/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/300-south-afric...
    - Kluny 10y ago
      Yeah, they need experience and training, so they're here to get it.
      - MichaelGG 10y ago
        They're also getting paid for it. I'm not against it, just annoyed how it's being published. The real story is "Canada gives South Africa over $2M, trains firefighters". Not "South Africa helps out Canada; pays back apartheid debt". It's shameful to spin it like that.
        sintaxi 10y ago
        I for one am very grateful they are here to help. Should be a clear win for both sides.
      - astrodust 10y ago
        Talk about experience. That's got to be crazy for them.
    - rpgmaker 10y ago
      > So it's just a Trudeau-like "diversity" hire or something? Are you implying that they're all black because they're from South Africa?
      - MichaelGG 10y ago
        Why wouldn't they be "diverse" (as in different) if they were white SAs? Though every picture and video seems to imply there's probably few to zero white firefighters that came over. But that might just be selective photography. (To be fair the pictures don't seem to show any women either, but the official number is around 60, or slightly greater than 20%.)
  - hanniabu 10y ago
    "This isn't the California wildfires. It's not threatening populated areas anymore. It's burning in a vast expanse of unpopulated subarctic forest. It's fine. The damage is done; now we wait for it to burn out while keeping an eye out for the next one." I hate this notion that wildlife and nature isn't important. Apparently only human lives and materialistic objects matter....
    - LionessLover 10y ago
      Over the decades they learned that fighting wild fires is counter-productive. What's left is fighting only fires that endanger humans and human structures and leave the wild ones alone. It's the product of many decades of experience! Which is missing in your statement (the experience), that tries to make this into some weird metaphysical issue. Just an example: http://www.washington.edu/news/2015/09/17/scientists-let-wildfires-burn-when-prudent/ http://www.washington.edu/news/2015/09/17/scientists-let-wil... Did you know that the earth has a history of 400 million years without humans fighting wildfires? (No big plants before the Devonian period.)
    - danmaz74 10y ago
      Fires are natural events and are part of the process that made our environment what it is. I recently visited Yosemite park and the giant sequoias, and it was explained that during the last 100 years or so there hadn't been any fires in the sequoias area because, to protect them, all fires were extinguished. Then it turned out that fires are actually beneficial to sequoias reproduction, because they create an environment that is better suited to giant sequoias than the other kinds of trees. So, protecting them from fire was actually damaging their future...
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - bryanlarsen 10y ago
      The northern forests of Canada are a large part Jack Pine, which require fire to open their seed cones and reproduce.
    - Mikeb85 10y ago
  - MustardTiger 10y ago
    >If accepting American or Russian help would have helped save Canadian homes and businesses, we would have How do you know this? Because the actual firefighters wanted more planes. The prime minster, who knows nothing about fire fighting is the one who rejected the help. Note that this has been an especially dry, hot season with far more wildfires than usual. And despite this, the provincial government cancelled the deal that they had to get more planes. The firefighters were up in arms over this. And that's before the Fort Mac fire happened.
    - makoz 10y ago
      Out of curiosity do you really think the prime minister just made a decision to reject help without consulting other people in the field?
      - MustardTiger 10y ago
        No, and I suggested nothing of the sort.
Kluny 10y ago
Yup, the PM is listening to the informed experience of the guys on the ground who have been doing it for decades. They are handling it correctly.
musgrove 10y ago
In many cases, it's not about putting the fire out when they become large. It's about containment, control and mitigation, which (competent) people are able to do.

vehementi 10y ago

I love how everyone else is just inventing shit about foreign policy. Folks y'all can talk good about hacking but it doesn't mean your armchair intuition is right about specialized issues in other countries

redthrowaway 10y ago
At any given point in any given summer, a large chunk of the country is on fire. That's the reality of having a massive landmass covered in boreal forest. The consequence of that is that we have a well funded, professional forest fire service that is among the best in the world at what they do. If accepting American or Russian help would have helped save Canadian homes and businesses, we would have. The South Africans are here for diplomatic reasons more than anything, and they arrived long after the critical period when we were trying to protect property and lives. This isn't the California wildfires. It's not threatening populated areas anymore. It's burning in a vast expanse of unpopulated subarctic forest. It's fine. The damage is done; now we wait for it to burn out while keeping an eye out for the next one.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  > The South Africans are here for diplomatic reasons more than anything So it's just a Trudeau-like "diversity" hire or something? Not to say that in a mean way, just that they are not the most qualified and have only received minimal training. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't being praised as "South African government sees it as repaying a debt to the Canadian people for their support for the anti-apartheid struggle"[1]. Let's just call it an aid program and be done? 1: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/300-south-african-firefighters-are-trained-and-headed-to-fort-mcmurray/article30197182/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/300-south-afric...
  - Kluny 10y ago
    Yeah, they need experience and training, so they're here to get it.
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      They're also getting paid for it. I'm not against it, just annoyed how it's being published. The real story is "Canada gives South Africa over $2M, trains firefighters". Not "South Africa helps out Canada; pays back apartheid debt". It's shameful to spin it like that.
      - sintaxi 10y ago
        I for one am very grateful they are here to help. Should be a clear win for both sides.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      Talk about experience. That's got to be crazy for them.
  - rpgmaker 10y ago
    > So it's just a Trudeau-like "diversity" hire or something? Are you implying that they're all black because they're from South Africa?
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      Why wouldn't they be "diverse" (as in different) if they were white SAs? Though every picture and video seems to imply there's probably few to zero white firefighters that came over. But that might just be selective photography. (To be fair the pictures don't seem to show any women either, but the official number is around 60, or slightly greater than 20%.)
- hanniabu 10y ago
  "This isn't the California wildfires. It's not threatening populated areas anymore. It's burning in a vast expanse of unpopulated subarctic forest. It's fine. The damage is done; now we wait for it to burn out while keeping an eye out for the next one." I hate this notion that wildlife and nature isn't important. Apparently only human lives and materialistic objects matter....
  - LionessLover 10y ago
    Over the decades they learned that fighting wild fires is counter-productive. What's left is fighting only fires that endanger humans and human structures and leave the wild ones alone. It's the product of many decades of experience! Which is missing in your statement (the experience), that tries to make this into some weird metaphysical issue. Just an example: http://www.washington.edu/news/2015/09/17/scientists-let-wildfires-burn-when-prudent/ http://www.washington.edu/news/2015/09/17/scientists-let-wil... Did you know that the earth has a history of 400 million years without humans fighting wildfires? (No big plants before the Devonian period.)
  - danmaz74 10y ago
    Fires are natural events and are part of the process that made our environment what it is. I recently visited Yosemite park and the giant sequoias, and it was explained that during the last 100 years or so there hadn't been any fires in the sequoias area because, to protect them, all fires were extinguished. Then it turned out that fires are actually beneficial to sequoias reproduction, because they create an environment that is better suited to giant sequoias than the other kinds of trees. So, protecting them from fire was actually damaging their future...
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - bryanlarsen 10y ago
    The northern forests of Canada are a large part Jack Pine, which require fire to open their seed cones and reproduce.
  - Mikeb85 10y ago
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  >If accepting American or Russian help would have helped save Canadian homes and businesses, we would have How do you know this? Because the actual firefighters wanted more planes. The prime minster, who knows nothing about fire fighting is the one who rejected the help. Note that this has been an especially dry, hot season with far more wildfires than usual. And despite this, the provincial government cancelled the deal that they had to get more planes. The firefighters were up in arms over this. And that's before the Fort Mac fire happened.
  - makoz 10y ago
    Out of curiosity do you really think the prime minister just made a decision to reject help without consulting other people in the field?
    - MustardTiger 10y ago
      No, and I suggested nothing of the sort.

Kluny 10y ago

Yup, the PM is listening to the informed experience of the guys on the ground who have been doing it for decades. They are handling it correctly.

musgrove 10y ago

In many cases, it's not about putting the fire out when they become large. It's about containment, control and mitigation, which (competent) people are able to do.