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You don't lose fan control with the ecobee3 Power Extender Kit. Also, the C wire is not rarely available, basically any house since the early 90s will have one

by tcoppi 10y ago

You don't lose fan control with the ecobee3 Power Extender Kit. Also, the C wire is not rarely available, basically any house since the early 90s will have one already wired up, and any house that has upgraded hvac unit in say the last 15 years will have the capacity to install one by running a wire to the mainboard.

UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
> You don't lose fan control with the ecobee3 Power Extender Kit. Read page 12 of their guide. The PEK requires additional connectors that not all systems even have. A lot of people will lose fan control, just like the Nest. > Also, the C wire is not rarely available, basically any house since the early 90s will have one already wired up Our house was built in 1998, doesn't have it, a coworker's house was built in 2005 and had to get it installed for their Nest ($120 callout + $120 in time), the in-laws returned a Nest because their home from roughly 2001-02 lacked it. Where are you getting this information? There's nothing in building codes that requires running the C wire, so builders will only run it if the thermostat requires it and most included ones do not. > any house that has upgraded hvac unit in say the last 15 years will have the capacity to install one by running a wire to the mainboard. Running wires behind walls isn't trivial in an already built home. Least of all if you're going up two to three floors.
- tcoppi 10y ago
  My house and all houses in my development were built in 1995 and have one. Most programmable thermostats recommend using a C wire(or batteries, but if they're being put in a new development they generally put the C wire in), and programmable thermostats have been "strongly recommended"/mandatory in many states for new developments for quite a while. Also have a relative in an older development that used the PEK and he can control his fan independently of the hvac just fine... I've actually more commonly heard of some control boards that mess with the fan if you use the C wire rather than the power extension kit, since the control board basically fakes the C wire using the G wire as the Nest does if you don't have a C wire. The PEK works differently.
  - UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
    It has nothing at all to do with programmable Vs. non-programmable. All of the homes I mentioned above, including ours, have a programmable thermostat. You don't need a C wire for a programmable thermostat. The other channels provide power, the C wire just provides more. It is useful if you want to run a color LCD screen or WiFi. If you have a thermostat with a black & white calculator-like LCD, it likely doesn't have a C wire running to it. > I've actually more commonly heard of some control boards that mess with the fan if you use the C wire rather than the power extension kit, since the control board basically fakes the C wire using the G wire as the Nest does if you don't have a C wire. What? That would burn out thermostats. How would the control board know to pass 24Vac through a low voltage line? Can you link anything to this "common thing" that control boards do? Sorry but I'm extremely skeptical of that, it doesn't even make sense from a thermostat signal point of view, since they'd just assume you would run C if C was required during installation rather than doing the hack you're suggesting here. The reality is that C isn't required on almost any included thermostat, programmable or simple. Good installers run the C but terminate it, bad installers just don't run the unneeded C. I've never heard or read about a first party control board which acts like a bypass kit out of the box, and I don't even understand the point.
- supergeek133 10y ago
  A lot of houses have the thermostat wire run for it but the installer just cut it off to hide it. In my old house from 1950s the furnace had the terminal so I just ran a new wire. Easy if you have some fishtape or something similar. Kind of depends how far your thermostat is from your furnace though.
- DannyBee 10y ago
  "so builders will only run it if the thermostat requires it and most included ones do not." From what i can tell, this is wrong. I asked 30 builders in 3 states (a mailing list), and every single one of them basically agreed with the statement that they have put them in all homes they've built since 1990. The truth is, AFAIK, the largest homebuilders in the US do it as a matter of policy. The building code does not require running low voltage wiring (including RG6) anywhere, either, but most do it nowadays. I really think you are wrong about this :)
  - UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
    Can you link to the mailing list? I'd like to read the replies.
- coredog64 10y ago
  House built in '99/00 by a large builder: No C wire. With that said, the Ecobee that I bought off eBay included the PEK. It required a few hours up in the attic but was easier than I thought it was going to be.

by tcoppi 10y ago

UnoriginalGuy 10y ago

> You don't lose fan control with the ecobee3 Power Extender Kit. Read page 12 of their guide. The PEK requires additional connectors that not all systems even have. A lot of people will lose fan control, just like the Nest. > Also, the C wire is not rarely available, basically any house since the early 90s will have one already wired up Our house was built in 1998, doesn't have it, a coworker's house was built in 2005 and had to get it installed for their Nest ($120 callout + $120 in time), the in-laws returned a Nest because their home from roughly 2001-02 lacked it. Where are you getting this information? There's nothing in building codes that requires running the C wire, so builders will only run it if the thermostat requires it and most included ones do not. > any house that has upgraded hvac unit in say the last 15 years will have the capacity to install one by running a wire to the mainboard. Running wires behind walls isn't trivial in an already built home. Least of all if you're going up two to three floors.

tcoppi 10y ago
My house and all houses in my development were built in 1995 and have one. Most programmable thermostats recommend using a C wire(or batteries, but if they're being put in a new development they generally put the C wire in), and programmable thermostats have been "strongly recommended"/mandatory in many states for new developments for quite a while. Also have a relative in an older development that used the PEK and he can control his fan independently of the hvac just fine... I've actually more commonly heard of some control boards that mess with the fan if you use the C wire rather than the power extension kit, since the control board basically fakes the C wire using the G wire as the Nest does if you don't have a C wire. The PEK works differently.
- UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
  It has nothing at all to do with programmable Vs. non-programmable. All of the homes I mentioned above, including ours, have a programmable thermostat. You don't need a C wire for a programmable thermostat. The other channels provide power, the C wire just provides more. It is useful if you want to run a color LCD screen or WiFi. If you have a thermostat with a black & white calculator-like LCD, it likely doesn't have a C wire running to it. > I've actually more commonly heard of some control boards that mess with the fan if you use the C wire rather than the power extension kit, since the control board basically fakes the C wire using the G wire as the Nest does if you don't have a C wire. What? That would burn out thermostats. How would the control board know to pass 24Vac through a low voltage line? Can you link anything to this "common thing" that control boards do? Sorry but I'm extremely skeptical of that, it doesn't even make sense from a thermostat signal point of view, since they'd just assume you would run C if C was required during installation rather than doing the hack you're suggesting here. The reality is that C isn't required on almost any included thermostat, programmable or simple. Good installers run the C but terminate it, bad installers just don't run the unneeded C. I've never heard or read about a first party control board which acts like a bypass kit out of the box, and I don't even understand the point.
supergeek133 10y ago
A lot of houses have the thermostat wire run for it but the installer just cut it off to hide it. In my old house from 1950s the furnace had the terminal so I just ran a new wire. Easy if you have some fishtape or something similar. Kind of depends how far your thermostat is from your furnace though.
DannyBee 10y ago
"so builders will only run it if the thermostat requires it and most included ones do not." From what i can tell, this is wrong. I asked 30 builders in 3 states (a mailing list), and every single one of them basically agreed with the statement that they have put them in all homes they've built since 1990. The truth is, AFAIK, the largest homebuilders in the US do it as a matter of policy. The building code does not require running low voltage wiring (including RG6) anywhere, either, but most do it nowadays. I really think you are wrong about this :)
- UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
  Can you link to the mailing list? I'd like to read the replies.
coredog64 10y ago
House built in '99/00 by a large builder: No C wire. With that said, the Ecobee that I bought off eBay included the PEK. It required a few hours up in the attic but was easier than I thought it was going to be.