7 ms·

On the bright side, it is opening up some long-overdue political dialogue. For example diversification of the Alberta economy away from natural resources. Calg

On the bright side, it is opening up some long-overdue political dialogue. For example diversification of the Alberta economy away from natural resources. Calgary's downtown office towers have reached record high vacancy rates, with so many engineers laid off. I'm hoping this is an opportunity for tech companies to take notice and move in.

wrong_variable 10y ago
Interesting to know. I have been thinking of moving to Canada due to all the good things I hear from my Canadian friends. But I get conflicting view from the news and statistics.
- Teever 10y ago
  I hope you understand that unless you have a job lined up or citizenship it is somewhat difficult to move to Canada. If I may make a modest suggestion perhaps try visiting Canada for a period of time in a region where you would want to eventually live instead of relying on the opinions of your friends (who may be biased) or statistics (which may not tell the whole story.)
  - ced 10y ago
    Many countries can get work-holiday visas to Canada. It's a very nice deal, and you can get "serious" jobs with it, too.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- serge2k 10y ago
  Move to BC. It's great. Unless you like cities and want to ever own a house, but don't worry about that.
- Pxtl 10y ago
  Canada is big. Calgary is one small part, and that guy was exaggerating anyways. Let's remember that Calgary elected mayor Naheed Nenshi, a famously liberal Muslim who is pushing for better transit and more intensification. Iirc, Calgary was also the provincial stronghold of the NDP, a hard leftward swing of Alberta politics against the long control of the Progressive Conservative party. But yes, the pay sucks for coders outside of Vancouver and Toronto, and there the insane housing market makes it not worth it anyways.
  - riphay 10y ago
    > Calgary was also the provincial stronghold of the NDP Correction: Edmonton is the stronghold of the NDP. Premier Notley's seat in the Legislature is in Edmonton's Strathcona riding, and I believe before last year Edmonton was the only city to elect NDP MLA's. Calgary has always been a Progressive Conservative stronghold.
  - fudged71 10y ago
    He's pushing for better public transit, not necessarily private transit ;) #UberScandal
  - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
    Calgary has been die hard right wing for years. Edmonton is the stronghold for the NDP. And historically that was always the case. (I'm old enough to remember Jan Reimer as mayor in the 80s...)
derefr 10y ago
Your mention of Alberta made me realize—the low dollar, the unemployment, and the wildfire are all hitting the province of Alberta in particular. (Respectively, oil dollars, oil jobs, and oil sands, may be responsible.) And the three are intertwined: the fires aren't just destroying nature and wildlife, they're destroying liquid-asset real estate and arable farmland (i.e. jobs) as well. A lot of people are going to be suddenly qualified for income assistance in Alberta this year. If Alberta were its own country—as a few of their conservative pundits have semi-jokingly called for—this would be the point where you'd start to see pleas for international relief aid on the news, like those from Indonesia after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. Instead, the Canadian government is going to have to try to soak up all those losses on its own. I wonder if its treasury is even that big?
- soperj 10y ago
  If Alberta were it's own country their coffers would have been much bigger to deal with this mess. They probably would have also have accepted firefighters right away from other countries instead of waiting. They're is really no farmland up near fort mac. Don't know how farmland jobs are being destroyed?
  - cdmckay 10y ago
    Considering how they managed their Heritage Trust Fund, I somehow doubt that.
    - soperj 10y ago
      They have over 18 billion still in the fund.
burnguy123 10y ago
I am not sure this is going to happen. Calgary is a very conservative city, very little public transportation, a terrible cab system (and a city council who opposes alternatives), terrible road network (especially crowchild) no nightlife and very conservative drug and alcohol laws. Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian (54k usd), so the good ones just move the the USA or work remotely. I don't see Calgary becoming a booming tech scene anytime soon.
- wesd 10y ago
  >Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian I have to disagree with that statement. As an example, here is a system admin job posting by City of Calgary. The pay range is $77,891 - 117,609 per annum https://recruiting.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL?Page=HRS_CE_JOB_DTL&JobOpeningId=207371&PostingSeq=1&SiteId=1 https://recruiting.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_H...
  - maerF0x0 10y ago
    Those city and CBE jobs are few and far between and usually pay much higher than private jobs. The 77k is starting wage more or less no matter what seniority and rises with yrs of service in the union. I think most intermediate / senior engineers can make 75k a year, but starting is very low, like 50k.
    - TheGeminon 10y ago
      That seems really wrong to me. I work for TELUS and starting wages for entry level programming positions is around the 55k-70k, and then for more intermediate positions (something like 5 years experience) you are looking at 70-100K
- msbarnett 10y ago
  > Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian (54k usd) That sounds low to me. Rates in Edmonton are considerably higher and I doubt Calgary skews that much lower. Hand-wavy, since it varies by exact variety of software you're doing, but I'd say that was more than 20k+ below market for intermediate-senior exp. Still lower than the US, of course.
asteadman 10y ago
I can only hope, but i'm not optimistic. Diversification seems a long way off.
jlos 10y ago
>> On the bright side, it is opening up some long-overdue political dialogue. For example diversification of the Alberta economy away from natural resources. As far as I know, Alberta's provincial government hasn't prevented growth in other sectors. Natural resources have made a lot of sense, giving their abundance here. And despite the roller coaster ride of natural resources, the province's finances are some of the healthiest in the entire country: - Lowest Debt-GDP ratio in the country (-1.2% for Alberta, compared with 39.6% in Ontario and 49.6% in Quebec) - No Provincial Sales Tax - 3rd highest spending per capita, next to SK and NL (30% higher than Ontario and 43% higher than Quebec) - GDP/Capita almost double of every other province And all of that doesn't include the transfer payments which go out to the Eastern Provinces. All that to say, I do hope your right and the tech ccene is Alberta can grow from current vacancies and other problems in the province. I think the province could really benefit from some natural growth in other sectors. [0] http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial-forecasts/prov_fiscal.pdf http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canad...
cmrdporcupine 10y ago
The city in Alberta that makes more sense for an software engineering industry is Edmonton. The University of Alberta is one of the top CS/engineering schools on the continent. I keep mentioning this to my coworkers at Google. A second Canadian engineering office in Edmonton would be awesome. And then I could move closer to my family.
- zzalpha 10y ago
  Please no. With the oil downturn we can finally find qualified software devs to hire... the last thing we need is Google snapping them up!
  - walshemj 10y ago
    Why you want to depress our wages ?
    - zzalpha 10y ago
      No, just supply. During the more heated oil years no one was looking for a job. And this might come as a surprise, but that actually makes it really hard to hire, even if you have competitive offers. This might be different in other markets where job hopping is common and the overall supply of qualified hires is high (Edmonton often loses out to Calgary and Vancouver), but you don't see that as much here, unfortunately.
      - walshemj 10y ago
        Same difference you just weren't offering enough $ or an interesting job to attract people.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
    Who is we and what are you hiring for?

wrong_variable 10y ago

Interesting to know. I have been thinking of moving to Canada due to all the good things I hear from my Canadian friends. But I get conflicting view from the news and statistics.

Teever 10y ago
I hope you understand that unless you have a job lined up or citizenship it is somewhat difficult to move to Canada. If I may make a modest suggestion perhaps try visiting Canada for a period of time in a region where you would want to eventually live instead of relying on the opinions of your friends (who may be biased) or statistics (which may not tell the whole story.)
- ced 10y ago
  Many countries can get work-holiday visas to Canada. It's a very nice deal, and you can get "serious" jobs with it, too.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
serge2k 10y ago
Move to BC. It's great. Unless you like cities and want to ever own a house, but don't worry about that.
Pxtl 10y ago
Canada is big. Calgary is one small part, and that guy was exaggerating anyways. Let's remember that Calgary elected mayor Naheed Nenshi, a famously liberal Muslim who is pushing for better transit and more intensification. Iirc, Calgary was also the provincial stronghold of the NDP, a hard leftward swing of Alberta politics against the long control of the Progressive Conservative party. But yes, the pay sucks for coders outside of Vancouver and Toronto, and there the insane housing market makes it not worth it anyways.
- riphay 10y ago
  > Calgary was also the provincial stronghold of the NDP Correction: Edmonton is the stronghold of the NDP. Premier Notley's seat in the Legislature is in Edmonton's Strathcona riding, and I believe before last year Edmonton was the only city to elect NDP MLA's. Calgary has always been a Progressive Conservative stronghold.
- fudged71 10y ago
  He's pushing for better public transit, not necessarily private transit ;) #UberScandal
- cmrdporcupine 10y ago
  Calgary has been die hard right wing for years. Edmonton is the stronghold for the NDP. And historically that was always the case. (I'm old enough to remember Jan Reimer as mayor in the 80s...)

derefr 10y ago

Your mention of Alberta made me realize—the low dollar, the unemployment, and the wildfire are all hitting the province of Alberta in particular. (Respectively, oil dollars, oil jobs, and oil sands, may be responsible.) And the three are intertwined: the fires aren't just destroying nature and wildlife, they're destroying liquid-asset real estate and arable farmland (i.e. jobs) as well. A lot of people are going to be suddenly qualified for income assistance in Alberta this year. If Alberta were its own country—as a few of their conservative pundits have semi-jokingly called for—this would be the point where you'd start to see pleas for international relief aid on the news, like those from Indonesia after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. Instead, the Canadian government is going to have to try to soak up all those losses on its own. I wonder if its treasury is even that big?

soperj 10y ago
If Alberta were it's own country their coffers would have been much bigger to deal with this mess. They probably would have also have accepted firefighters right away from other countries instead of waiting. They're is really no farmland up near fort mac. Don't know how farmland jobs are being destroyed?
- cdmckay 10y ago
  Considering how they managed their Heritage Trust Fund, I somehow doubt that.
  - soperj 10y ago
    They have over 18 billion still in the fund.

burnguy123 10y ago

I am not sure this is going to happen. Calgary is a very conservative city, very little public transportation, a terrible cab system (and a city council who opposes alternatives), terrible road network (especially crowchild) no nightlife and very conservative drug and alcohol laws. Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian (54k usd), so the good ones just move the the USA or work remotely. I don't see Calgary becoming a booming tech scene anytime soon.

wesd 10y ago
>Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian I have to disagree with that statement. As an example, here is a system admin job posting by City of Calgary. The pay range is $77,891 - 117,609 per annum https://recruiting.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL?Page=HRS_CE_JOB_DTL&JobOpeningId=207371&PostingSeq=1&SiteId=1 https://recruiting.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_H...
- maerF0x0 10y ago
  Those city and CBE jobs are few and far between and usually pay much higher than private jobs. The 77k is starting wage more or less no matter what seniority and rises with yrs of service in the union. I think most intermediate / senior engineers can make 75k a year, but starting is very low, like 50k.
  - TheGeminon 10y ago
    That seems really wrong to me. I work for TELUS and starting wages for entry level programming positions is around the 55k-70k, and then for more intermediate positions (something like 5 years experience) you are looking at 70-100K
msbarnett 10y ago
> Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian (54k usd) That sounds low to me. Rates in Edmonton are considerably higher and I doubt Calgary skews that much lower. Hand-wavy, since it varies by exact variety of software you're doing, but I'd say that was more than 20k+ below market for intermediate-senior exp. Still lower than the US, of course.

asteadman 10y ago

I can only hope, but i'm not optimistic. Diversification seems a long way off.

jlos 10y ago

>> On the bright side, it is opening up some long-overdue political dialogue. For example diversification of the Alberta economy away from natural resources. As far as I know, Alberta's provincial government hasn't prevented growth in other sectors. Natural resources have made a lot of sense, giving their abundance here. And despite the roller coaster ride of natural resources, the province's finances are some of the healthiest in the entire country: - Lowest Debt-GDP ratio in the country (-1.2% for Alberta, compared with 39.6% in Ontario and 49.6% in Quebec) - No Provincial Sales Tax - 3rd highest spending per capita, next to SK and NL (30% higher than Ontario and 43% higher than Quebec) - GDP/Capita almost double of every other province And all of that doesn't include the transfer payments which go out to the Eastern Provinces. All that to say, I do hope your right and the tech ccene is Alberta can grow from current vacancies and other problems in the province. I think the province could really benefit from some natural growth in other sectors. [0] http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial-forecasts/prov_fiscal.pdf http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canad...

cmrdporcupine 10y ago

The city in Alberta that makes more sense for an software engineering industry is Edmonton. The University of Alberta is one of the top CS/engineering schools on the continent. I keep mentioning this to my coworkers at Google. A second Canadian engineering office in Edmonton would be awesome. And then I could move closer to my family.

zzalpha 10y ago
Please no. With the oil downturn we can finally find qualified software devs to hire... the last thing we need is Google snapping them up!
- walshemj 10y ago
  Why you want to depress our wages ?
  - zzalpha 10y ago
    No, just supply. During the more heated oil years no one was looking for a job. And this might come as a surprise, but that actually makes it really hard to hire, even if you have competitive offers. This might be different in other markets where job hopping is common and the overall supply of qualified hires is high (Edmonton often loses out to Calgary and Vancouver), but you don't see that as much here, unfortunately.
    - walshemj 10y ago
      Same difference you just weren't offering enough $ or an interesting job to attract people.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- cmrdporcupine 10y ago
  Who is we and what are you hiring for?