5 ms·

Flash vs HTML 5

21 points by kloc 17y ago

ZeroGravitas 17y ago
This is an unchanged repost of a ReadWriteWeb post, which in turn only summarises the original article by Jan Ozer which is discussed here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1181452 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1181452
lovskogen 17y ago
What's with NYT anti HTML5 agenda?
- nlabs 17y ago
  They dont want to have to recode all that flash they use
- arethuza 17y ago
  Why does it have to be an "anti HTML5 agenda"?
  - benologist 17y ago
    Because it's not saying what everyone wants to hear aka flash is doomed!!!!
    - nlabs 17y ago
      dont you want flash to be doomed? In 5 years why should the web require a plugin to show video or vector graphics?
      - sid0 17y ago
        > dont you want flash to be doomed? I don't. > In 5 years why should the web require a plugin to show video or vector graphics? It shouldn't, but both your questions seem quite unrelated.
        nlabs 17y ago
        huh? flash provides video and vector graphics in a browser. If html5 can do these then flash is doomed, hence related.
        sid0 17y ago
        I'd contend that the reason HTML5 actually paid attention to video and vector graphics was that Flash made them popular. I don't want Flash (or equivalent) to die because I want to see even more innovation from them, all of which eventually makes its way to standards.
        nlabs 17y ago
        I'd contend that the reason HTML5 actually paid attention to video and vector graphics was that Flash made them popular. good point. But maybe Adobe should do more to embrace more on open standards than pushing a closed (swf) format.
      - benologist 17y ago
        I love Flash, and the core problems people rant about boil down to crap Adobe can fix. HTML5 has some amazing possibilities ahead of it but none of that eradicates Flash's future. Fantasizing and circlejerking about that possibility is just retarded -plugins fill a void the W3C and browser vendors can't do themselves - and that is keeping up. What are your needs in 5 years and what makes you think HTML5 is somehow perfectly anticipating them? How about 10 years? How about even one year from now? Are you going to upgrade any software at all you use over the next 5 years? Or did they all get it perfect too?
        pohl 17y ago
        "Adobe can fix" < "Anybody can fix" I've lived in a world where I couldn't access online banking if I was using anything as exotic as Mozilla on Linux. Thankfully, the situation has improved a bit since those days, but I would never want to return to them. Note that today you don't have to stray very far from the mainstream before Adobe stops delivering their plugin. The web should be such that it can be used on innovative platforms without being at the mercy of one CEO who doesn't like another CEO that day, or thinks your FreeBSD or Plan 9 or Haiku are too marginal, or that your CPU instruction set insufficiently ubiquitous.
      - randallsquared 17y ago
        > In 5 years why should the web require a plugin For the end user, what's the difference between "require a plugin" and "require a browser"?
        icefox 17y ago
        Something that requires Windows and something that will run on any random device I can pick up at Fry's.
    - icefox 17y ago
      If they put their fingers in their ears and go 'LALALALALALALA' the problem might go away.
kjf 17y ago
There are other factors to consider here besides performance. Security for one.
- arethuza 17y ago
  Not to mention functionality - code the same thing in Flash and using Canvas and compare what is involved. Some things that are trivial in Flash/Flex are (as far as I can see) pretty difficult when using Canvas. Note that I really want to use Canvas - but at the moment when it comes to interactive graphical applications I don't think the two are currently directly comparable.
  - robin_reala 17y ago
    I don't think the two are currently directly comparable. They’ll never be directly comparable. Canvas is a bitmap drawing field, Flash is a vector drawing field with enhancements. If you want to do vector stuff you’re probably better off using SVG.
    - arethuza 17y ago
      Absolutely, which is why I pretty much gave up using Canvas and decided to try Raphaël http://raphaeljs.com/ http://raphaeljs.com/
  - Groxx 17y ago
    Give it time. The canvas element isn't even out of draft phases yet. How long has Flash been around? Honestly, I think canvas will catch up to Flash in capabilities pretty quickly. And I'm holding out hope for OpenCL hooks for Javascript for this reason precisely. What's really needed now is a good editor like Flash's studio. People are still largely doing everything by hand-coding things. Put Flash on that same level, and see how easy things are to do.
    - arethuza 17y ago
      Well, I hand code ActionScript using a vanilla editor and use the command line compiler and I still find Flex/Flash easier to use than Canvas.
Thuglife 17y ago
2010 and i am bound to a company so i can have "proper" video on a web page. Flash VS HTML5 is a no brainer for any sane person. I almost forgot, FU Adobe i use FreeBSD. Good riddance.
est 17y ago
The problem with HTML5 is that it does not provide any better new features of multimedia, but an incomplete alternative to Flash. I would definitely choose HTML5 if I can make something that can not be done with Flash nor HTML4
- simonw 17y ago
  "I would definitely choose HTML5 if I can make something that can not be done with Flash nor HTML4" Interactive graphics that work on the iPhone and iPad.
GBKS 17y ago
HTML is doomed. Flash is way more powerful and installed on almost every computer in the world. Flash also runs almost the same on all browsers, even IE6, where many HTML sites break - another clear advantage... Seriously, this argument is getting old. Chose the right technology for your purpose and use it wisely to prevent CPU spikes, security issues, etc. HTML makes strides forward and so does Flash. HTML is great for 90% of all needs, and Flash fills in the other 10% where you need some more flexibility, play audio, have multiple file-uploads, run it as an Air app on the desktop, etc.
- Groxx 17y ago
  HTML is doomed. Flash is way more powerful and installed on almost every computer in the world. What, HTML isn't installed on almost every computer in the world?
Groxx 17y ago
This has nothing to do with HTML5 and everything to do with playing videos. Flash vs <insert browser's decoder here>.
cpetersen 17y ago
This article seems to miss the point. First, it starts off talking about the iPad and how Flash may not be the CPU hog its made out to be. It then goes on to say that HTML5 is more efficient than Flash in Safari. The iPad runs Safari, in effect contradicting their previous argument about the iPad. Next, they say that Apple could allow Adobe to make Flash faster, all they have to do is open up access to the hardware APIs. Who exactly wants a browser plugin to have low level access to the hardware APIs? Seems kind of ridiculous to say that something else is at work here. Does Apple want to kill Flash? Probably, but even if they didn't want to, they've got plenty of reasons not to allow flash on the iPhone/iPad/etc.

21 points by kloc 17y ago

This is an unchanged repost of a ReadWriteWeb post, which in turn only summarises the original article by Jan Ozer which is discussed here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1181452 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1181452

lovskogen 17y ago

What's with NYT anti HTML5 agenda?

nlabs 17y ago
They dont want to have to recode all that flash they use
arethuza 17y ago
Why does it have to be an "anti HTML5 agenda"?
- benologist 17y ago
  Because it's not saying what everyone wants to hear aka flash is doomed!!!!
  - nlabs 17y ago
    dont you want flash to be doomed? In 5 years why should the web require a plugin to show video or vector graphics?
    - sid0 17y ago
      > dont you want flash to be doomed? I don't. > In 5 years why should the web require a plugin to show video or vector graphics? It shouldn't, but both your questions seem quite unrelated.
      - nlabs 17y ago
        huh? flash provides video and vector graphics in a browser. If html5 can do these then flash is doomed, hence related.
        sid0 17y ago
        I'd contend that the reason HTML5 actually paid attention to video and vector graphics was that Flash made them popular. I don't want Flash (or equivalent) to die because I want to see even more innovation from them, all of which eventually makes its way to standards.
        nlabs 17y ago
        I'd contend that the reason HTML5 actually paid attention to video and vector graphics was that Flash made them popular. good point. But maybe Adobe should do more to embrace more on open standards than pushing a closed (swf) format.
    - benologist 17y ago
      I love Flash, and the core problems people rant about boil down to crap Adobe can fix. HTML5 has some amazing possibilities ahead of it but none of that eradicates Flash's future. Fantasizing and circlejerking about that possibility is just retarded -plugins fill a void the W3C and browser vendors can't do themselves - and that is keeping up. What are your needs in 5 years and what makes you think HTML5 is somehow perfectly anticipating them? How about 10 years? How about even one year from now? Are you going to upgrade any software at all you use over the next 5 years? Or did they all get it perfect too?
      - pohl 17y ago
        "Adobe can fix" < "Anybody can fix" I've lived in a world where I couldn't access online banking if I was using anything as exotic as Mozilla on Linux. Thankfully, the situation has improved a bit since those days, but I would never want to return to them. Note that today you don't have to stray very far from the mainstream before Adobe stops delivering their plugin. The web should be such that it can be used on innovative platforms without being at the mercy of one CEO who doesn't like another CEO that day, or thinks your FreeBSD or Plan 9 or Haiku are too marginal, or that your CPU instruction set insufficiently ubiquitous.
    - randallsquared 17y ago
      > In 5 years why should the web require a plugin For the end user, what's the difference between "require a plugin" and "require a browser"?
      - icefox 17y ago
        Something that requires Windows and something that will run on any random device I can pick up at Fry's.
  - icefox 17y ago
    If they put their fingers in their ears and go 'LALALALALALALA' the problem might go away.

kjf 17y ago

There are other factors to consider here besides performance. Security for one.

arethuza 17y ago
Not to mention functionality - code the same thing in Flash and using Canvas and compare what is involved. Some things that are trivial in Flash/Flex are (as far as I can see) pretty difficult when using Canvas. Note that I really want to use Canvas - but at the moment when it comes to interactive graphical applications I don't think the two are currently directly comparable.
- robin_reala 17y ago
  I don't think the two are currently directly comparable. They’ll never be directly comparable. Canvas is a bitmap drawing field, Flash is a vector drawing field with enhancements. If you want to do vector stuff you’re probably better off using SVG.
  - arethuza 17y ago
    Absolutely, which is why I pretty much gave up using Canvas and decided to try Raphaël http://raphaeljs.com/ http://raphaeljs.com/
- Groxx 17y ago
  Give it time. The canvas element isn't even out of draft phases yet. How long has Flash been around? Honestly, I think canvas will catch up to Flash in capabilities pretty quickly. And I'm holding out hope for OpenCL hooks for Javascript for this reason precisely. What's really needed now is a good editor like Flash's studio. People are still largely doing everything by hand-coding things. Put Flash on that same level, and see how easy things are to do.
  - arethuza 17y ago
    Well, I hand code ActionScript using a vanilla editor and use the command line compiler and I still find Flex/Flash easier to use than Canvas.

Thuglife 17y ago

2010 and i am bound to a company so i can have "proper" video on a web page. Flash VS HTML5 is a no brainer for any sane person. I almost forgot, FU Adobe i use FreeBSD. Good riddance.

est 17y ago

The problem with HTML5 is that it does not provide any better new features of multimedia, but an incomplete alternative to Flash. I would definitely choose HTML5 if I can make something that can not be done with Flash nor HTML4

simonw 17y ago
"I would definitely choose HTML5 if I can make something that can not be done with Flash nor HTML4" Interactive graphics that work on the iPhone and iPad.

GBKS 17y ago

HTML is doomed. Flash is way more powerful and installed on almost every computer in the world. Flash also runs almost the same on all browsers, even IE6, where many HTML sites break - another clear advantage... Seriously, this argument is getting old. Chose the right technology for your purpose and use it wisely to prevent CPU spikes, security issues, etc. HTML makes strides forward and so does Flash. HTML is great for 90% of all needs, and Flash fills in the other 10% where you need some more flexibility, play audio, have multiple file-uploads, run it as an Air app on the desktop, etc.

Groxx 17y ago
HTML is doomed. Flash is way more powerful and installed on almost every computer in the world. What, HTML isn't installed on almost every computer in the world?

Groxx 17y ago

This has nothing to do with HTML5 and everything to do with playing videos. Flash vs <insert browser's decoder here>.

cpetersen 17y ago

This article seems to miss the point. First, it starts off talking about the iPad and how Flash may not be the CPU hog its made out to be. It then goes on to say that HTML5 is more efficient than Flash in Safari. The iPad runs Safari, in effect contradicting their previous argument about the iPad. Next, they say that Apple could allow Adobe to make Flash faster, all they have to do is open up access to the hardware APIs. Who exactly wants a browser plugin to have low level access to the hardware APIs? Seems kind of ridiculous to say that something else is at work here. Does Apple want to kill Flash? Probably, but even if they didn't want to, they've got plenty of reasons not to allow flash on the iPhone/iPad/etc.