4 ms·

There's also the concept of a negotiation anchor. In that it's better to name the first number and make it borderline ridiculous and in your favor. So that anyt

by basseq 10y ago

There's also the concept of a negotiation anchor. In that it's better to name the first number and make it borderline ridiculous and in your favor. So that anything lower seems like a deal. Hypothetical situation time. I'm a job seeker and my minimum acceptable salary is $100k. You're a recruiter and your range is $80-$120k. Neither of us know the others' number. If I make you say a number first, you would start at the bottom of your range. (Why not?) Now I'm "negotiating up" to my minimum. Alternatively, I go first and anchor at $150k. Now it's much more difficult to lowball me at $80k, and we'll probably "negotiate down" to your maximum. The key with this technique is setting a good anchor. Too high (e.g., $200k) and you'll just walk away. Too low (e.g., $120k) and you'll whittle me down because you know you can negotiate. ----- Bottom line is knowing what you're worth and quickly testing whether you're in the ballpark. If you go into interviews without having a sense of whether the company will give you a competitive offer, you're wasting everyone's time. (And you have a bad HR department.) Don't use ranges: the employer will hear the lower number. Just say, "The market rate for this kind of role is $150k base. I'd look for a competitive overall comp package, and we can talk about salary, bonus, and equity. Is that what you had in mind?" You'll get one of three answers: 1. "Yes, that's in range." (And you can probably negotiate up.) 2. "No, that's too high. We were thinking $x." (Now you know where you stand, and how far apart you are. <20% is negotiation. Note that if they don't give you $x, don't give another number: you're just negotiating against yourself.) 3. "Ehh, it's on the higher end, but I think we can make this work." (Might actually be #1, but otherwise means you're in the sweet spot.)

Infernal 10y ago
The first half of your post reduces to "know how much the prospective employer is willing to pay". Anchoring high only works if you know what "high" is. If the recruiter had a 150k-200k range in mind, and you throw out 150k, then you've just cheated yourself. There's lots of advice in this thread to "know what you're worth", but where is that signal coming from?
- basseq 10y ago
  Market research, competitive offers, friends... there are a lot of sources. If you don't have at least a sense, it doesn't matter what negotiation tactic you're using. Maxing out at $200k would just be a factor of luck or a mistake on the part of the company. Anchoring is merely a technique: the first half of my post boils down to "it's ok to throw out the first number".
- nissimk 10y ago
  Here is a simple heuristic that's worked well for me: look at all of the job ads online for similar roles in the same city. Most will not name numbers. Find the highest listed number (top of range) in all of those ads and add 20%. That is a place where you will not be selling yourself short. You may not be maximizing your comp, but you will be above the average. Just understand this may disqualify you from jobs where they only pay below average. You need to be comfortable with being disqualified for high comp. In addition to highest published umber + 20%, I would advise to carefully read any stated salaries on message boards like this when they come along and pay attention to the highest numbers. Then you will be aware of what is possible.
  - tedmiston 10y ago
    You might be able to compare salaries like that, but cross comparing equity is much more difficult.
    - LoSboccacc 10y ago
      yeah but equity * likely outcome is going to be comparable to a lottery ticket, not hard cash, unless you are 100% sure you can pick startup winners, and if you can why aren't you just into the funding market making 1000x than a developer per year?
      - tedmiston 10y ago
        You don't have to be 100% sure to be able to boost your odds. One way to boost your odds towards picking a winner is to join in the employee ~15-25 spots. Early enough that equity is on the table, but late enough that some traction has been proven already to dampen your risk.
devonkim 10y ago
I've gotten a (4) response several times after interviews that went well in multiple regions - "Although you're well qualified, your experience and compensation are far more than we were expecting and we cannot proceed. Thank you for your time." I've asked different contacts before at most of them and my ask was within 15% and still way too much. Different companies have different tolerance for comfort even if they can get "top talent" for a good deal because they're so price sensitive. I've had a negotiation where I found out that the company was only able to make $2.5k after paying me + overhead (contracting on predefined rates) after they led me on and gave me an offer that met my low number barely after bonuses with zero stock. I rejected multiple times and a VP even called me by the end. That should have been the sign to walk honestly. Evidently, some places have no negotiating power fundamentally because they have no intrinsically compelling work with substantially below market rates and with little means to negotiate up their value proposition to improve their circumstances.

by basseq 10y ago

Infernal 10y ago

The first half of your post reduces to "know how much the prospective employer is willing to pay". Anchoring high only works if you know what "high" is. If the recruiter had a 150k-200k range in mind, and you throw out 150k, then you've just cheated yourself. There's lots of advice in this thread to "know what you're worth", but where is that signal coming from?

basseq 10y ago
Market research, competitive offers, friends... there are a lot of sources. If you don't have at least a sense, it doesn't matter what negotiation tactic you're using. Maxing out at $200k would just be a factor of luck or a mistake on the part of the company. Anchoring is merely a technique: the first half of my post boils down to "it's ok to throw out the first number".
nissimk 10y ago
Here is a simple heuristic that's worked well for me: look at all of the job ads online for similar roles in the same city. Most will not name numbers. Find the highest listed number (top of range) in all of those ads and add 20%. That is a place where you will not be selling yourself short. You may not be maximizing your comp, but you will be above the average. Just understand this may disqualify you from jobs where they only pay below average. You need to be comfortable with being disqualified for high comp. In addition to highest published umber + 20%, I would advise to carefully read any stated salaries on message boards like this when they come along and pay attention to the highest numbers. Then you will be aware of what is possible.
- tedmiston 10y ago
  You might be able to compare salaries like that, but cross comparing equity is much more difficult.
  - LoSboccacc 10y ago
    yeah but equity * likely outcome is going to be comparable to a lottery ticket, not hard cash, unless you are 100% sure you can pick startup winners, and if you can why aren't you just into the funding market making 1000x than a developer per year?
    - tedmiston 10y ago
      You don't have to be 100% sure to be able to boost your odds. One way to boost your odds towards picking a winner is to join in the employee ~15-25 spots. Early enough that equity is on the table, but late enough that some traction has been proven already to dampen your risk.

devonkim 10y ago

I've gotten a (4) response several times after interviews that went well in multiple regions - "Although you're well qualified, your experience and compensation are far more than we were expecting and we cannot proceed. Thank you for your time." I've asked different contacts before at most of them and my ask was within 15% and still way too much. Different companies have different tolerance for comfort even if they can get "top talent" for a good deal because they're so price sensitive. I've had a negotiation where I found out that the company was only able to make $2.5k after paying me + overhead (contracting on predefined rates) after they led me on and gave me an offer that met my low number barely after bonuses with zero stock. I rejected multiple times and a VP even called me by the end. That should have been the sign to walk honestly. Evidently, some places have no negotiating power fundamentally because they have no intrinsically compelling work with substantially below market rates and with little means to negotiate up their value proposition to improve their circumstances.