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Microsoft has repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot fix their "platform issues", which also includes tooling. For example getting back to an environment tha

Microsoft has repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot fix their "platform issues", which also includes tooling. For example getting back to an environment that uses MSBuild and Visual Studio for builds, dependency management, continuous integration and whatnot, after having used Maven, SBT, Leiningen and their ilk, feels like going back to the nineties. Even worse, your IDE of choice needs plugins to have working refactoring and it still can't handle automatic downloading of source code for third party dependencies, but at the same time manages to be bloated, and you still consider it the best IDE ever. I also think .NET developers get too fixated on Java the language. We've got Netty, Apache Spark, Hadoop and Cassandra and we've got Clojure, Scala, JRuby and Groovy. In other words a big ecosystem powered by what proved to be a multi language runtime not just in marketing brochures.

wvenable 10y ago
Honestly one of the big problems I have getting into Java-the-ecosystem is the huge number of frameworks, tools, languages, etc that all compete with each other. The solution to every Java problem is just more: more tools, more syntax, more languages. It's hard to get started in that situation. If you're already well into it all, then one more thing is just one more thing.
- treehau5 10y ago
  > Honestly one of the big problems I have getting into Java-the-ecosystem is the huge number of frameworks, tools, languages, etc that all compete with each other. Depending on how hard you look that is true for every language driven by open source: case and point is Javascript front end frameworks (Now the dust is settling a bit, and there seems to be Angular2/React/Ember, both with varying levels of overlap) Competition is a good thing. Choices are a good thing. What eventually happens is larger frameworks eventually emerge as winners, and absorb the good ideas out of the smaller frameworks. Spring Boot is an example of this. > The solution to every Java problem is just more: more tools, more syntax, more languages. That's the solution for 'Enterprise Consultants/Architects' maybe, but we normal java programmers just favor simple tools and jars these days. For example, I would roll over dead before I had to use Spring again, but I would much rather use some simple jars to stitch together an API like Jackson and Jersey, at worse, using something minimal like Dropwizard.

wvenable 10y ago

Honestly one of the big problems I have getting into Java-the-ecosystem is the huge number of frameworks, tools, languages, etc that all compete with each other. The solution to every Java problem is just more: more tools, more syntax, more languages. It's hard to get started in that situation. If you're already well into it all, then one more thing is just one more thing.

treehau5 10y ago
> Honestly one of the big problems I have getting into Java-the-ecosystem is the huge number of frameworks, tools, languages, etc that all compete with each other. Depending on how hard you look that is true for every language driven by open source: case and point is Javascript front end frameworks (Now the dust is settling a bit, and there seems to be Angular2/React/Ember, both with varying levels of overlap) Competition is a good thing. Choices are a good thing. What eventually happens is larger frameworks eventually emerge as winners, and absorb the good ideas out of the smaller frameworks. Spring Boot is an example of this. > The solution to every Java problem is just more: more tools, more syntax, more languages. That's the solution for 'Enterprise Consultants/Architects' maybe, but we normal java programmers just favor simple tools and jars these days. For example, I would roll over dead before I had to use Spring again, but I would much rather use some simple jars to stitch together an API like Jackson and Jersey, at worse, using something minimal like Dropwizard.