9 ms·

Pretty serious MTB/cyclocross racer here that's done a lot of trailbuilding and trail advocacy: a lot of dudes are scared that offroad ebikes are going to kill

• websitescenes 10y ago
  Long time cyclist and bike shop owner here. I recently put an electric hub motor on an old DH bike and have been riding local trails. I have to admit, I did not expect the push back that I have received from cyclists. I get trolled, called names and targeted all because I like to ride my ebike on the trails. Funny thing is, nobody else seems to care. Only other cyclists.
  • tobltobs 10y ago
    Those other cyclists will be the ones who will loose access to the trails. After two difficult decades of finding a balance between hikers and bikers on the trails these new breed of trail ebiker destroy the hard found compromise. As sooner as ebikes are forbidden on trails as better.
    • alrs 10y ago
      They're motorcycles, they are already forbidden.
      • tobltobs 10y ago
        In europe they are still allowed everywhere if they are constructed as a pedelec with a top speed restriction.
        • digi_owl 10y ago
          25kmh with pedaling (you can go faster, but the engine will stop assisting at that point) and 6kmh on just engine. I keep seeing videos on /r/ebike and similar from USA where some yahoo has ordered engine and battery from Ebay or China that can push the thing way into motorcycle range.
          • masklinn 10y ago
            > 6kmh on just engine. FWIW that makes it not a bicycle according to EN15194. EN15194 recommends a bicycle classification for vehicles which * only ever provide assistance * below 25km/h (with progressive cutoff) * with maximum continuous rated power of 250W Anything beyond that is classified as a moped. Though EN15194 is a recommandation, member states are free to follow it or not.
        • arethuza 10y ago
          Pretty sure the "right to roam" here in Scotland prohibits access to other people's land on motorised vehicles.
      • jlarocco 10y ago
        You've hit the nail on the head. To a lot of people (myself included), they're more like electric motorcycles. I don't really care if people choose to ride them, but there are already designated trails that allow motorized access, and poaching mountain bike trails is going to ruin it for everybody.
      • alistairSH 10y ago
        Tell that to the guys riding them. I beginning to see a few on the local multi-use trail (where motorized vehicles are banned). One even has a giant fairing and looks more like a tuk-tuk or e-car than a bicycle. Right now, there are few enough that it's not a big problem. But, the tuk-tuk e-bike is larger than a normal bike, so it's hard to pass (or make a pass) and will do more damage in a collision. Some of them are faster than the average road bike - I've seen several hybrid-style e-bikes cruising at close to 20mph with the rider soft-pedaling. It's a can of worms for sure.
      • HNaTTY 10y ago
        It varies slightly by state, but many places you can have up to 750-1000 watts and up to 20mph unassisted on flat ground and still have a bicycle, meaning no license or insurance requirement. You'll typically pedal close to 20mph on flat ground. I find these limits to be reasonable.
        • brianwawok 10y ago
          Well bikes are a little bit self limiting which helps. Me an average biker can do 20 mph for a while. Buddies who race can cruise 24, 25mph all day. But they also have really good reflexes. Normal guy first day on the bike and 75 pound overweight? He does about 12mph. Throw him on an ebike and he can do 30mph or more (depends on the speed regulator). Overall I am very split on ebikes. Love seeing more guys on bikes. The more bikes, the more cars expect them, the more bike friendly laws, etc. On the other hand, biking is pretty cool. ebiking is more like motorcycling.
  • derekp7 10y ago
    Out of curiosity, how stealth is your setup? And when you get flak, are you running in pedal assist mode, or throttle only? In my case, I've got a smaller (geared) hub motor on the back, you wouldn't know it was there unless you were looking for it (hides nicely between the gear cluster and the disc brake). The only obvious ebike sign is the large battery (shaped like a water bottle, but sized more like a long 2-liter bottle)
    • websitescenes 10y ago
      Super silent but It's a frankenbike; Huge battery on the toptube.
  • jlarocco 10y ago
    I'm also a cyclist, and I don't really care what other people do. However, my view is that if the trail allows other motorized use (dirt bikes, ATVs, etc.), it should also allow electric bikes. If the trail does not allow other motorized access, it should also be closed to electric bikes. I'm sure it's only matter of time before trailhead signs and regulations catch up. As you probably know, mountain bikers already struggle to get access to a lot of trails. Zipping around even faster is a sure fire way to lose access.
    • websitescenes 10y ago
      Access is explicitly allowed in my region. I'm not going to stop riding because some cyclists are worried. If the law changes, I'll have to reconsider my position.
      • MrTonyD 10y ago
        I remember my college theology class - we discussed how laws are often created in an effort to reflect and communicate community values. I find it interesting that someone would insist that laws are more important than the values being communicated by their "neighbors". If anything, I would think such feedback is a more valid expression of community values.
        • icebraining 10y ago
          websitescenes did write that only cyclists are bothered, so the values being communicated by the community at large don't seem to conflict with the law.
          • thatcat 10y ago
            They're bothered by the precieved threat of more restrictions due to larger community possibly being bothered.
          • websitescenes 10y ago
            Not sure what you're asking but I'm just saying that I ride on trails because it's currently allowed and fun. When and if the law changes I'll reconsider.
• URSpider94 10y ago
  A co-worker of mine is an e-bike fanatic who builds his own hardware. He has street bikes that will go up to 40 mph. (He also does a massive trail ride on his regular MTB almost every morning, and road bikes on the weekends). Once or twice, he did the commute into work using Strava as his speedo ... needless to say, he got some fairly negative feedback when he accidentally claimed the KOM (king of the mountain) on a bunch of routes, blowing away the second-best time. He has since learned about how to use Strava in private mode...
  • deleted 10y ago
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  • Kadin 10y ago
    > He has street bikes that will go up to 40 mph. In my state that's a motorcycle, and illegal to ride on the street without a license plate and insurance. It'll be the same way most everywhere soon, I expect.
    • URSpider94 10y ago
      Probably true where I live, too -- but first a cop would have to (a) care, then (b) notice, then (c) actually catch him in the act of exceeding the speed limit ...
    • tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      In the UK the limit is 250W / 15mph which seems reasonable to me.
    • huxley 10y ago
      Federally in Canada, the upper limit seems to be 500W and 32km/h in Canada.
      • auxym 10y ago
        If only it was enforced. These electric scooters are really dangerous on the rather narrow and already congested bike lanes in montreal. Note that I used the term electric scooters. I have nothing against regular bicycles with electric assist. That is, a vehicle with a reasonable weight (40-50 lb) allowing people to got at reasonable bicycle speeds (20 km/h is the max on most city bikepaths here) without exerting themselves. But people doing 30 km/h on a busy narrow bikepath on a 200lb vehicle is just unreasonable. If the bike infrastructure made sense for these vehicles, it'd be another story. But at the moement and for the foreseeable future, the infrastructure is barely adequate for regular bicycles. The roads would be a way better alternative. I'm all for seeing more cars replaced by electric scooters in urban cores. Of course, winter is a big problem in montreal.
• Pxtl 10y ago
  Theyve already banned e-bikes from trails and bike-lanes in Toronto, cyclists are unaffected.
• nl 10y ago
  I'm a road cyclist, and one of the most fun things I've ever done was racing an e-bike up a long (~8km) climb. E-bikes here are limited to 250W, which made it pretty fair. He'd blast the flatter parts, and I'd try to hang on, and then on the steeper parts the extra weight of the ebike slowed him so I'd catch up again. Made me want to get one. I agree with your point about MTB versions
  • jean_claude 10y ago
    I used to regularly troll the semi-serious club rides on my recumbent, beating them on the flats, crushing them downhill, and pedaling like mad to keep up on the uphill battles. Just me, no motor onboard. But I've been thinking about buying one of those pedal assist e-bike rear wheel kits and putting it on my folder for commuting to work on recovery days rather than drive. They look dead simple, just need to make a bracket for the reaction arm and battery pack. Also, much cheaper than a decent quality e-bike would cost (new).
    • nl 10y ago
      I hear that electric assist is quite popular in cyclocross these days too....
• switchbak 10y ago
  Cheers fellow MTB'er :) I had a pretty strong knee-jerk reaction to the electric mountain bike proposition initially. We're not really seeing the trails get overcrowded with them though, and I don't expect that any time particularly soon. With regular mountain bikes already costing an insane amount, I don't think any regular riders will risk it until prices become reasonable. I guess the weight requirements can be lessened though, which could help the cost. I always assumed dirt bikes tore the hell out of trails (and some do), but what surprised me was trials bikes - with low pressure and good riding style, these actually have far less impact that your typical mountain biker (or hiker), even on sensitive moss/loam. With luck, we could have a similar situation with ebikes, perhaps even semi-automated. My initial reaction I think was more disgust that untrained, out-of-shape people would be clamouring on my favourite trails en-masse, wrecking it in short order. That's a pretty exclusive/elitist opinion though, and doesn't make my athletic endeavours any less worthy. Plus that no e-bike is going to make descending shore-style trails any easier (probably the opposite). Hopefully these things can evolve in a way that's inclusive, sustainable, and respectful to all trail users. Personally, I'd just like a little re-gen from my brakes :) And for commuting, I think they're just about perfect. Once I have a long commute again, I'll probably nab one.