3 ms·

"tools" don't always exist or may not be available. So, as with all software, it must be possible to edit the files as text with a good developer experience.

pjmlp 10y ago
Yes, but that should be the exception, not the rule. I think that the hate usually comes from the PDP-11 programming crowd, whose only tools are the CLI and an editor.
- ubertaco 10y ago
  >Yes, but that should be the exception, not the rule Yeah, like it has been with .NET development on platforms where Visual Studio doesn't exist (read: all of them except Windows). "should be" is a very different creature from "is", and is also very different from "will be". > the hate usually comes from the PDP-11 programming crowd, whose only tools are the CLI and an editor. Also known as "the every other platform except Windows" crowd, which apparently is substantial enough that even the one outlier -- Microsoft -- finally is trying to move in line with the rest of the world by allowing Bash and Linux tools in Windows 10. You can be dismissive all you want, but that doesn't change the reality that CLI+editors are modern development (see also: almost every new language's ecosystem pivoting on CLI tooling and editor plugins), not the past.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    > Also known as "the every other platform except Windows" crowd I am yet to see iDevices and Android developers being PDP-11 devs or guys doing development on our Fortune 500 customers, regardless of the customer OS.
    - ubertaco 10y ago
      Strange, it sure looks like that at Amazon, at Netflix, at McKesson, at Facebook, at....you get the idea But enough empty hot-air "name-dropping"; just cool your bluster, dude. You don't have to get all "look at me I'm better than you, I have all the best words, great words like 'Fortune 500'" just because you don't like CLIs.
- intrasight 10y ago
  You might be surprised to hear, then, that the vast majority of programmers are in the PDP-11 crowd
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    It doesn't look like that on the Fortune 500 offices I tend to sit on.

pjmlp 10y ago

Yes, but that should be the exception, not the rule. I think that the hate usually comes from the PDP-11 programming crowd, whose only tools are the CLI and an editor.

ubertaco 10y ago
>Yes, but that should be the exception, not the rule Yeah, like it has been with .NET development on platforms where Visual Studio doesn't exist (read: all of them except Windows). "should be" is a very different creature from "is", and is also very different from "will be". > the hate usually comes from the PDP-11 programming crowd, whose only tools are the CLI and an editor. Also known as "the every other platform except Windows" crowd, which apparently is substantial enough that even the one outlier -- Microsoft -- finally is trying to move in line with the rest of the world by allowing Bash and Linux tools in Windows 10. You can be dismissive all you want, but that doesn't change the reality that CLI+editors are modern development (see also: almost every new language's ecosystem pivoting on CLI tooling and editor plugins), not the past.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  > Also known as "the every other platform except Windows" crowd I am yet to see iDevices and Android developers being PDP-11 devs or guys doing development on our Fortune 500 customers, regardless of the customer OS.
  - ubertaco 10y ago
    Strange, it sure looks like that at Amazon, at Netflix, at McKesson, at Facebook, at....you get the idea But enough empty hot-air "name-dropping"; just cool your bluster, dude. You don't have to get all "look at me I'm better than you, I have all the best words, great words like 'Fortune 500'" just because you don't like CLIs.
intrasight 10y ago
You might be surprised to hear, then, that the vast majority of programmers are in the PDP-11 crowd
- pjmlp 10y ago
  It doesn't look like that on the Fortune 500 offices I tend to sit on.