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Call me crazy, but I think long term this will be a good thing for Java. (I am one of those people who actually enjoys Java, I know call me crazy) My organizat

Call me crazy, but I think long term this will be a good thing for Java. (I am one of those people who actually enjoys Java, I know call me crazy) My organization for example used to be all PHP and JavaScript. This whole "static language" thing is new to them. They tried C# and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, (along with Go). So they heard about Microsoft going "open source" and decided to give it a spin. Now with the 'boiling the ocean' article ringing true for many, people are starting to get some heartburn about having to get in bed with Microsoft. I stand over in the corner and raise my hand occasionally and say, "How about Java?" every now and then.

wvenable 10y ago
Once you've used C#, it's really hard to go to Java. If they were radically different, it might be easier, but instead Java just presents itself as a worse version of C#. Microsoft can fix their platform issues but Java the language can't really be meaningfully improved. So, in my opinion, it's still Microsoft's game to win or lose.
- bad_user 10y ago
  Microsoft has repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot fix their "platform issues", which also includes tooling. For example getting back to an environment that uses MSBuild and Visual Studio for builds, dependency management, continuous integration and whatnot, after having used Maven, SBT, Leiningen and their ilk, feels like going back to the nineties. Even worse, your IDE of choice needs plugins to have working refactoring and it still can't handle automatic downloading of source code for third party dependencies, but at the same time manages to be bloated, and you still consider it the best IDE ever. I also think .NET developers get too fixated on Java the language. We've got Netty, Apache Spark, Hadoop and Cassandra and we've got Clojure, Scala, JRuby and Groovy. In other words a big ecosystem powered by what proved to be a multi language runtime not just in marketing brochures.
  - wvenable 10y ago
    Honestly one of the big problems I have getting into Java-the-ecosystem is the huge number of frameworks, tools, languages, etc that all compete with each other. The solution to every Java problem is just more: more tools, more syntax, more languages. It's hard to get started in that situation. If you're already well into it all, then one more thing is just one more thing.
    - treehau5 10y ago
      > Honestly one of the big problems I have getting into Java-the-ecosystem is the huge number of frameworks, tools, languages, etc that all compete with each other. Depending on how hard you look that is true for every language driven by open source: case and point is Javascript front end frameworks (Now the dust is settling a bit, and there seems to be Angular2/React/Ember, both with varying levels of overlap) Competition is a good thing. Choices are a good thing. What eventually happens is larger frameworks eventually emerge as winners, and absorb the good ideas out of the smaller frameworks. Spring Boot is an example of this. > The solution to every Java problem is just more: more tools, more syntax, more languages. That's the solution for 'Enterprise Consultants/Architects' maybe, but we normal java programmers just favor simple tools and jars these days. For example, I would roll over dead before I had to use Spring again, but I would much rather use some simple jars to stitch together an API like Jackson and Jersey, at worse, using something minimal like Dropwizard.

wvenable 10y ago

Once you've used C#, it's really hard to go to Java. If they were radically different, it might be easier, but instead Java just presents itself as a worse version of C#. Microsoft can fix their platform issues but Java the language can't really be meaningfully improved. So, in my opinion, it's still Microsoft's game to win or lose.

bad_user 10y ago
Microsoft has repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot fix their "platform issues", which also includes tooling. For example getting back to an environment that uses MSBuild and Visual Studio for builds, dependency management, continuous integration and whatnot, after having used Maven, SBT, Leiningen and their ilk, feels like going back to the nineties. Even worse, your IDE of choice needs plugins to have working refactoring and it still can't handle automatic downloading of source code for third party dependencies, but at the same time manages to be bloated, and you still consider it the best IDE ever. I also think .NET developers get too fixated on Java the language. We've got Netty, Apache Spark, Hadoop and Cassandra and we've got Clojure, Scala, JRuby and Groovy. In other words a big ecosystem powered by what proved to be a multi language runtime not just in marketing brochures.
- wvenable 10y ago
  Honestly one of the big problems I have getting into Java-the-ecosystem is the huge number of frameworks, tools, languages, etc that all compete with each other. The solution to every Java problem is just more: more tools, more syntax, more languages. It's hard to get started in that situation. If you're already well into it all, then one more thing is just one more thing.
  - treehau5 10y ago
    > Honestly one of the big problems I have getting into Java-the-ecosystem is the huge number of frameworks, tools, languages, etc that all compete with each other. Depending on how hard you look that is true for every language driven by open source: case and point is Javascript front end frameworks (Now the dust is settling a bit, and there seems to be Angular2/React/Ember, both with varying levels of overlap) Competition is a good thing. Choices are a good thing. What eventually happens is larger frameworks eventually emerge as winners, and absorb the good ideas out of the smaller frameworks. Spring Boot is an example of this. > The solution to every Java problem is just more: more tools, more syntax, more languages. That's the solution for 'Enterprise Consultants/Architects' maybe, but we normal java programmers just favor simple tools and jars these days. For example, I would roll over dead before I had to use Spring again, but I would much rather use some simple jars to stitch together an API like Jackson and Jersey, at worse, using something minimal like Dropwizard.