3 ms·

I think "embedded" may be the wrong word. Perhaps "very low power" is the correct way to differentiate these things (e.g. RPi versus TI MSP430). I think that a

I think "embedded" may be the wrong word. Perhaps "very low power" is the correct way to differentiate these things (e.g. RPi versus TI MSP430). I think that at this point they are both "embedded" since I would consider "embedded" to be anything without a keyboard and monitor (hence "embedded" inside another thing).

qubex 10y ago
So a headless server is ‘embedded’? An old-school vector supercomputer that required a frontside host system is ‘embedded’? No, surely not: ‘embedded’ requires the notion of the computing system to be essentially a controller of a physical process or system, i.e., the component that controls a device or machine that operates in our actual physical world. It might very well possess a (perhaps rudimentary) screen and keyboard or keypad.
- planteen 10y ago
  I like that definition. I used to maintain a system most people would call true "embedded" - it was a PowerPC based VME system running VxWorks. The job of the system was to monitor some analog voltages, detect an unsafe condition, and open some relays if the unsafe condition was detected in < 10 ms. VxWorks dev tools and the PowerPC cards are very expensive, so we decided to replace it with a x86-64 server running RedHat MRG. That is the Linux kernel with the PREEMPT_RT patchset. We had a PCIe card in there for monitoring the analogs and firing the relays. Was the system still embedded? I would argue it was. The heart of the code was basically the same - VxWorks has the POSIX API for pthreads after all. There were just some driver call changes and init looked different.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    Thanks for mentioning VxWorks. It looks quite interesting, and I'm surprised that I haven't heard of it before!
- new_hackers 10y ago
  You make a good point. But the old-school vector supercomputer was likely not very-low-power. That my general point, since very-low-power devices have different programming models than a more conventional OS based computer.
- rdtsc 10y ago
  > , the component that controls a device or machine that operates in our actual physical world. So is a an industrial factory control server embedded? It controls valves, actuators, reads sensors. It can still be a whole rack top to bottom full of high power Xeon servers. Embedded literally means inside something. It is not a computer used on its own, say to run general purpose software, but as part of another larger system. There is no power or size requirements for that. Well and most of all it is a fuzzy term.
- choosername 10y ago
  that would be a controller. embedded in a similar vein means that a controller or whatever is embedded in a bigger stand-alone system, and thus not it isn't stand-alone on its own. a desktop is stand-alone. A webserver isn't but the internet its part of isn' really stand-alone. Mobiles were called embedded, but newer phones with apps are rather stand-alone. All are embeddable.

qubex 10y ago

So a headless server is ‘embedded’? An old-school vector supercomputer that required a frontside host system is ‘embedded’? No, surely not: ‘embedded’ requires the notion of the computing system to be essentially a controller of a physical process or system, i.e., the component that controls a device or machine that operates in our actual physical world. It might very well possess a (perhaps rudimentary) screen and keyboard or keypad.

planteen 10y ago
I like that definition. I used to maintain a system most people would call true "embedded" - it was a PowerPC based VME system running VxWorks. The job of the system was to monitor some analog voltages, detect an unsafe condition, and open some relays if the unsafe condition was detected in < 10 ms. VxWorks dev tools and the PowerPC cards are very expensive, so we decided to replace it with a x86-64 server running RedHat MRG. That is the Linux kernel with the PREEMPT_RT patchset. We had a PCIe card in there for monitoring the analogs and firing the relays. Was the system still embedded? I would argue it was. The heart of the code was basically the same - VxWorks has the POSIX API for pthreads after all. There were just some driver call changes and init looked different.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  Thanks for mentioning VxWorks. It looks quite interesting, and I'm surprised that I haven't heard of it before!
new_hackers 10y ago
You make a good point. But the old-school vector supercomputer was likely not very-low-power. That my general point, since very-low-power devices have different programming models than a more conventional OS based computer.
rdtsc 10y ago
> , the component that controls a device or machine that operates in our actual physical world. So is a an industrial factory control server embedded? It controls valves, actuators, reads sensors. It can still be a whole rack top to bottom full of high power Xeon servers. Embedded literally means inside something. It is not a computer used on its own, say to run general purpose software, but as part of another larger system. There is no power or size requirements for that. Well and most of all it is a fuzzy term.
choosername 10y ago
that would be a controller. embedded in a similar vein means that a controller or whatever is embedded in a bigger stand-alone system, and thus not it isn't stand-alone on its own. a desktop is stand-alone. A webserver isn't but the internet its part of isn' really stand-alone. Mobiles were called embedded, but newer phones with apps are rather stand-alone. All are embeddable.