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someone said something like "the one question I have about BI, is, is there an ADDITIONAL safety net if a person burns through their cash and can't pay rent and

someone said something like "the one question I have about BI, is, is there an ADDITIONAL safety net if a person burns through their cash and can't pay rent and eat? Beecause if yes, then it's just like the system we have now with welfare. And if not, then it's even crueler cuz some people won't eat." After reading this "provide money for the rest of their lives" from jacques mattheij I think I have an answer to that question. We give people BI in the form of litterally $100,000 a year job. You come on payroll, 100k, and you get to learn how to live on that. If your car breaks down, and there's a big payment you need to make, you gotta learn how rain in your spending. If you still can't eat after 100k goto a soup kitchen, someone will take pitty on you I'm sure, but, no there is no more safety net. The key to BI is you have to make the amount not just 30k a year or 50k. People really need to know what it's like to have all the expenses paid AND have stuff left over for fun. You just can't have fun on 50k cuz after rent and food and other basic stuff, there is zero left. Not true with 100k.

teraflop 10y ago
100k is almost double the per-capita GDP of the United States. Doesn't matter what government structure you put in place -- there literally isn't enough stuff for everybody to get that much of it.
andrewfromx 10y ago
hehe, or would this cause MASSIVE inflation since every joe has a 100k, prices would just go way up. No way to solve this really.
ncallaway 10y ago
While I'm a huge proponent of BI, I think it's hugely challenging to make the numbers work at 20k of income. I think 12k or 9,600 is a much more likely place for a BI program to start. Where are you going to get the capital to make 40k, 50k, or 100k happen? Edit: I originally wrote 12k or 9,600k are a likely place to start. To be clear, I do not think 9,600,000 USD is a reasonable place to start the BI salary.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  Print the money. That way you will also have a healthy dose of inflation in the economy.
- andrewfromx 10y ago
  well BI is more like a complete re-think of capitalism. The OP article says give people BI for the rest of their lives. And that's really key. So, where do you get the capital? Picture this thought experiement: a big construction lot with 100's of workers building a large building. They are hammering they are nailing, work is going along great. Then, they run out of money. Work comes to a halt. "WE'RE OUT OF MONEY EVERYONE!" "HEY YOU, PUT DOWN YOUR HAMMER!" And everyone would. Out of money is like the worst thing you could be out of. Now try replacing the word money with "inches". Hey we can't finish the building because we ran out of inches. Sounds ridiculous right? But money isn't a real resource like wood or nails. Money is like inches. It's just a unit of measurement. You can't be out of inches. And the guy swinging the hammer doesn't really have to put down his hammer because the money is gone. So BI really has to go this far. We have to transcend money to the point where people just build stuff because they like to. We talking a form of government that's not capitalism, not communism, not socialism, not any word you've ever heard of before. BI needs a new "ism" word. How about inchesism?
brbsix 10y ago
> is there an ADDITIONAL safety net if a person burns through their cash and can't pay rent and eat? ... And if not, then it's even crueler cuz some people won't eat. People can still be irresponsible (or whatever you'd like to call it) with welfare. They can spend it all at the beginning of the month or barter their credit for cash/drugs. In the end they'll be left hungry. They made that choice for themselves. It's not cruel. To say otherwise is to deny them of their free agency, and if that's the case, perhaps they belong in the care of someone else.

teraflop 10y ago

100k is almost double the per-capita GDP of the United States. Doesn't matter what government structure you put in place -- there literally isn't enough stuff for everybody to get that much of it.

andrewfromx 10y ago

hehe, or would this cause MASSIVE inflation since every joe has a 100k, prices would just go way up. No way to solve this really.

ncallaway 10y ago

While I'm a huge proponent of BI, I think it's hugely challenging to make the numbers work at 20k of income. I think 12k or 9,600 is a much more likely place for a BI program to start. Where are you going to get the capital to make 40k, 50k, or 100k happen? Edit: I originally wrote 12k or 9,600k are a likely place to start. To be clear, I do not think 9,600,000 USD is a reasonable place to start the BI salary.

venomsnake 10y ago
Print the money. That way you will also have a healthy dose of inflation in the economy.
andrewfromx 10y ago
well BI is more like a complete re-think of capitalism. The OP article says give people BI for the rest of their lives. And that's really key. So, where do you get the capital? Picture this thought experiement: a big construction lot with 100's of workers building a large building. They are hammering they are nailing, work is going along great. Then, they run out of money. Work comes to a halt. "WE'RE OUT OF MONEY EVERYONE!" "HEY YOU, PUT DOWN YOUR HAMMER!" And everyone would. Out of money is like the worst thing you could be out of. Now try replacing the word money with "inches". Hey we can't finish the building because we ran out of inches. Sounds ridiculous right? But money isn't a real resource like wood or nails. Money is like inches. It's just a unit of measurement. You can't be out of inches. And the guy swinging the hammer doesn't really have to put down his hammer because the money is gone. So BI really has to go this far. We have to transcend money to the point where people just build stuff because they like to. We talking a form of government that's not capitalism, not communism, not socialism, not any word you've ever heard of before. BI needs a new "ism" word. How about inchesism?

brbsix 10y ago

> is there an ADDITIONAL safety net if a person burns through their cash and can't pay rent and eat? ... And if not, then it's even crueler cuz some people won't eat. People can still be irresponsible (or whatever you'd like to call it) with welfare. They can spend it all at the beginning of the month or barter their credit for cash/drugs. In the end they'll be left hungry. They made that choice for themselves. It's not cruel. To say otherwise is to deny them of their free agency, and if that's the case, perhaps they belong in the care of someone else.