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> very particular about people pulling their weight, so we've churned through 10 people so far. I've had a very difficult time competing for top talent. "we're

> very particular about people pulling their weight, so we've churned through 10 people so far. I've had a very difficult time competing for top talent. "we're going to invite you for a fifth round of interviews to make sure you're someone in line with our vision and understands our mission"

dreyfan 10y ago
not at all, if anything it's been the opposite (lack of vetting): we find someone that looks good on paper and interviews well, so we roll the dice and hire them. Then end up having to let them go in a few months when they can't hack it.
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  what do you think about example projects, if they finish it then you've done some of the screening already the criticism of this being that some people call this free work
  - dreyfan 10y ago
    We've actually attempted that a couple of times (always with pay) but have always been turned down -- People either don't have the time for an eventual maybe or already have other offers on the table. I think in a job market that had a more balanced supply/demand that would work great.
- rifung 10y ago
  What do you think is stopping them from being able to "hack it"? It seems like if they've been there a few months already, you've essentially given them a few months training. Wouldn't it make sense to just continue that training until they're able to do what you want? Or, is there something else that is stopping them?
  - dreyfan 10y ago
    It's very possible they could have turned into something great and we were cutting losses too soon. That said, I have fairly high expectations and expect people to be motivated, tenacious and smart. We have such a broad spectrum of what we do (in a nutshell: infosec and data mining), it's difficult to simply train people for the myriad of scenarios they might encounter. This year I'll be stepping up my recruiting from the infosec community directly, up to now I've focused on polyglot devs with a background in security & web.
    - toadi 10y ago
      Aren't most people who are motivated, tenacious and smart trying to start something on their own?
      - dreyfan 10y ago
        Yep. Exactly the issue. I want people with similar traits as myself and all I find are people who just want a job with a steady paycheck.
        rifung 10y ago
        > all I find are people who just want a job with a steady paycheck In fairness, I think besides those who are well enough off to not need to work, a paycheck is the main reason people work. I'm just a junior engineer who admittedly doesn't know anything so take this with a grain of salt, but firing people because they are not similar to you seems bad for the company. After all, if they do good work in a timely manner, shouldn't that be more than sufficient? If you only hire people who are like you, then it seems like you'd get a serious lack of diversity too, even though the benefits of diversity are well studied. Then again, you're the one running a successful business while I'm just a random guy browsing HN when I should be working!
        gr33nman 10y ago
        Being honest with yourself, would an employee exactly like you really be an ideal employee? Would they dedicate all of their productive hours toward your business or might they be spending some energy working toward starting a business on their own?
- tiatia 10y ago
  "so we roll the dice and hire them. Then end up having to let them go in a few months when they can't hack it." Something is wrong here. 1. You are able to hire somebody. Your salaries may be to low that you may have a bias here. But people do start. 2. After a FEW MONTHS you realize that they are not able to "hack it" Sounds much more like a management problem than a skill problem.

dreyfan 10y ago

not at all, if anything it's been the opposite (lack of vetting): we find someone that looks good on paper and interviews well, so we roll the dice and hire them. Then end up having to let them go in a few months when they can't hack it.

cloudjacker 10y ago
what do you think about example projects, if they finish it then you've done some of the screening already the criticism of this being that some people call this free work
- dreyfan 10y ago
  We've actually attempted that a couple of times (always with pay) but have always been turned down -- People either don't have the time for an eventual maybe or already have other offers on the table. I think in a job market that had a more balanced supply/demand that would work great.
rifung 10y ago
What do you think is stopping them from being able to "hack it"? It seems like if they've been there a few months already, you've essentially given them a few months training. Wouldn't it make sense to just continue that training until they're able to do what you want? Or, is there something else that is stopping them?
- dreyfan 10y ago
  It's very possible they could have turned into something great and we were cutting losses too soon. That said, I have fairly high expectations and expect people to be motivated, tenacious and smart. We have such a broad spectrum of what we do (in a nutshell: infosec and data mining), it's difficult to simply train people for the myriad of scenarios they might encounter. This year I'll be stepping up my recruiting from the infosec community directly, up to now I've focused on polyglot devs with a background in security & web.
  - toadi 10y ago
    Aren't most people who are motivated, tenacious and smart trying to start something on their own?
    - dreyfan 10y ago
      Yep. Exactly the issue. I want people with similar traits as myself and all I find are people who just want a job with a steady paycheck.
      - rifung 10y ago
        > all I find are people who just want a job with a steady paycheck In fairness, I think besides those who are well enough off to not need to work, a paycheck is the main reason people work. I'm just a junior engineer who admittedly doesn't know anything so take this with a grain of salt, but firing people because they are not similar to you seems bad for the company. After all, if they do good work in a timely manner, shouldn't that be more than sufficient? If you only hire people who are like you, then it seems like you'd get a serious lack of diversity too, even though the benefits of diversity are well studied. Then again, you're the one running a successful business while I'm just a random guy browsing HN when I should be working!
      - gr33nman 10y ago
        Being honest with yourself, would an employee exactly like you really be an ideal employee? Would they dedicate all of their productive hours toward your business or might they be spending some energy working toward starting a business on their own?
tiatia 10y ago
"so we roll the dice and hire them. Then end up having to let them go in a few months when they can't hack it." Something is wrong here. 1. You are able to hire somebody. Your salaries may be to low that you may have a bias here. But people do start. 2. After a FEW MONTHS you realize that they are not able to "hack it" Sounds much more like a management problem than a skill problem.