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Edit: Ah, you edited and added more detail that you're more in favor of a peaceful transition. Okay, I'm with you on that - I think the bloody guerella communis
by lionhearted 17y ago
Edit: Ah, you edited and added more detail that you're more in favor of a peaceful transition. Okay, I'm with you on that - I think the bloody guerella communist takeover is always going to be a real mess. Rest of comment still stands if you're up for discussing, hope it's interesting and informative a bit.
> Just look at what happened after the American Revolution. Oh, wait...
Let me ask, seriously - I've done a lot of looking into it, and I'm at this point firmly convinced that socialism is a bad thing. I have no desire to be under a socialist system, and I'd resist if people tried to put me under one by force. Is there any way I could convince you to abandon socialistic thought? You've made a lot of pro-socialist comments. If it is, I'll be happy to keep discussing.
The main reason the American revolution gave way to good government is that the leaders of the revolution were largely older and more experienced than any other revolution in history. Most revolutionaries are young, and have no idea how to govern once the takeover is complete. Ironically, I'd point to the large mass of successful businessmen, traders, and capitalists as the reason the post-war government was built well in the United States. People like Franklin and Jefferson knew how to build successful organizations. Washington was an actual conventionally trained British military officer, so knew a fair lot more about organization and leadership than the guerrillas like Che, Castro, Kim Sung Il, Mao, Pol Pot, who were largely lost when it came to traditional structures.
So let me ask, if you don't mind - what would it take to convince you either that (1) socialism is largely a bad thing, or (2) you ought to live and let live, and let people want to be part of a collective join, whilst leaving people like me who want to be individuals alone? Because I'll attempt to address those points and criteria you have, and discuss if it's possible to change your mind.
- rms 17y agoI think a great deal of confusion with this issue is the assumption that someone that advocates socialism advocates 100% socialism. I wouldn't want to live in a fully left-libertarian (also called socialistic anarchism) society just like I wouldn't want to live in a fully right-libertarian society. Hybrid systems are just so much more pragmatic. The US is what, 30% socialist? And Europe is closer to 45% socialist? I think up to about 50% socialism (taxes used to redistribute wealth, not necessarily with welfare payments, but infrastrcture building, etc.) is probably desirable.
- Semiapies 17y ago"The US is what, 30% socialist? And Europe is closer to 45% socialist?" By what definition? Everyone seems to have their own. Einstein sure isn't talking about anything that looks remotely like the modern US or Europe.
- camccann 17y agoLet me ask, seriously - I've done a lot of looking into it, and I'm at this point firmly convinced that socialism is a bad thing. Really. Have you defined what is and is not socialism in a rigorous, non-subjective manner? Have you conducted empirical studies? Run computer simulations based on behavioral models? Published detailed quantitative predictions based on your understanding of economics? What objective means would you use to test the proposition "socialism is a bad thing"? What scenarios might someone who disagrees with you consider very likely that you would consider very unlikely? This idea of being "firmly convinced" regarding a question of economics is quite novel, so I'm curious how you've come to it.