4 ms·

Vorbis and FLAC may be distributed under very permissive open-source licenses, but they may also infringe on software patents, which is ostensibly why Apple has

by bydo 10y ago

Vorbis and FLAC may be distributed under very permissive open-source licenses, but they may also infringe on software patents, which is ostensibly why Apple has avoided them. They also may not, but under the current US patent system we can't really know until a court case; it does make sense for Apple (or any other company trying to avoid paying huge sums to patent trolls) not to test these waters. Licensing AAC and MP3 from Fraunhofer was an easy way to pass the buck.

JoshTriplett 10y ago
> Licensing AAC and MP3 from Fraunhofer was an easy way to pass the buck. Not really. Someone else could pop up and claim to have a patent over AAC or MP3, just as easily as they could for any other codec. Licensing a patent from one party makes absolutely no guarantee that someone else couldn't pop up with another patent and either payment or destroy a product. And I seriously doubt that a patent license for AAC or MP3 came with indemnity against any third-party patent claim.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  Not really. Someone else could pop up and claim to have a patent over AAC or MP3, just as easily as they could for any other codec. And in fact, that's exactly what happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatel-Lucent_v._Microsoft_Corp%2e https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatel-Lucent_v._Microsoft_Co... A $1.5 billion jury verdict was handed down against Microsoft, which was overturned by the judge.
shmerl 10y ago
> but they may also infringe on software patents, which is ostensibly why Apple has avoided them. No, it's not the reason. Anything can infringe on unknown patents, even same AAC. Opus and Vorbis aren't any more risky, Opus is actually much less. Apple are just jerks who don't want that barriers for entry (requirement to use patented codecs) would disappear.
gsnedders 10y ago
It's an argument against being the first major company to ship something; Vorbis has had nobody sue any of the major companies who have been shipping it for over a decade. The longer other major companies have been shipping without being sued the more likely it is nobody else will surface.
ZeroGravitas 10y ago
The claim that apple avoided FLAC due to parents doesn't hold up. Apples ALAC implements all the same techniques and so is open to all the same patent threats.

by bydo 10y ago

JoshTriplett 10y ago

> Licensing AAC and MP3 from Fraunhofer was an easy way to pass the buck. Not really. Someone else could pop up and claim to have a patent over AAC or MP3, just as easily as they could for any other codec. Licensing a patent from one party makes absolutely no guarantee that someone else couldn't pop up with another patent and either payment or destroy a product. And I seriously doubt that a patent license for AAC or MP3 came with indemnity against any third-party patent claim.

CamperBob2 10y ago
Not really. Someone else could pop up and claim to have a patent over AAC or MP3, just as easily as they could for any other codec. And in fact, that's exactly what happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatel-Lucent_v._Microsoft_Corp%2e https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatel-Lucent_v._Microsoft_Co... A $1.5 billion jury verdict was handed down against Microsoft, which was overturned by the judge.

shmerl 10y ago

> but they may also infringe on software patents, which is ostensibly why Apple has avoided them. No, it's not the reason. Anything can infringe on unknown patents, even same AAC. Opus and Vorbis aren't any more risky, Opus is actually much less. Apple are just jerks who don't want that barriers for entry (requirement to use patented codecs) would disappear.

gsnedders 10y ago

It's an argument against being the first major company to ship something; Vorbis has had nobody sue any of the major companies who have been shipping it for over a decade. The longer other major companies have been shipping without being sued the more likely it is nobody else will surface.

ZeroGravitas 10y ago

The claim that apple avoided FLAC due to parents doesn't hold up. Apples ALAC implements all the same techniques and so is open to all the same patent threats.