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What if the "privilege" you think you see is actually a difference in average ability or preferences between groups of people that are in fact different from ea
by H0n3sty 10y ago
What if the "privilege" you think you see is actually a difference in average ability or preferences between groups of people that are in fact different from each other?
Affirmative action does not help the groups it is directed towards, it simply handicaps them further by preventing them from being properly matched to their level or ability.
Clarence Thomas recently wrote about this in detail...
Slaveholders argued that slavery was a ‘positive good’ that civilized blacks and elevated them in every dimension of life. A century later, segregationists similarly asserted that segregation was not only benign, but good for black students. Although cloaked in good intentions, the University’s racial tinkering harms the very people it claims to be helping
If you'd like to learn about the unfortunate real outcomes of affirmative action then I strongly recommend researching Clarence Thomas and Thomas Sowell.
- deciplex 10y agoPromoting university enrollment for disadvantaged students really, like fucking really, is not the same as enslaving them. Likewise segregation was bad for a host of reasons among which was social isolation and misappropriation of resources (i.e. whites-only schools were well-funded while blacks-only schools were left to languish), both of which affirmative action is designed to remedy (and objectively does remedy based on fifty years studying the effects of these policies). Clarence Thomas is a pretty shitty Justice tbh. Recommendation rejected.
- H0n3sty 10y agoBut isolating/segregating with women-only groups like this is good? I hope your dislike of Justice Thomas is just because you don't agree with his politics. I think your use of profanity is inappropriate regardless of your reasoning. Perhaps you would like economist Thomas Sowell better. Or perhaps you're unwilling to give honest consideration to other views.
- deciplex 10y agoNice subtle accusation of racism, person-who-literally-thinks-that-some-races-are-inferior-to-others.
- H0n3sty 10y agoYou have that backwards. If you don't believe that some races are inferior then there are no reasons for things like affirmative action.
- deciplex 10y agoI already laid out the case for affirmative action which has nothing to do with any inherent racial ability whatsoever. Your reply: > What if the "privilege" you think you see is actually a difference in average ability or preferences between groups of people that are in fact different from each other? ...is the textbook definition of racism (and sexism). Moreover it criticizes affirmative action precisely on the basis that there are inherent differences of ability among different groups, by race or gender, etc. Initially I gave you the benefit of the doubt, assuming for the sake of argument and also in the interest of fair discussion that you probably didn't mean what you said, exactly. It is clear now I overestimated you.
- H0n3sty 10y agoIn case anyone is wondering what the "textbook" definition of racism is: the belief that "ALL" members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. The belief that races may be different in average ability with respect to certain characteristics or that members of certain races have their own preferences is not racist. Some people like to use the term racist as some sort of a perverted trump card to silence an opposing view rather than engaging in an actual debate. Good luck trying to have a civil conversation with someone like that.
- deciplex 10y agoI refrained from calling you a racist even after you said the obviously racist thing. Moreover you first implied I'm racist out of the blue, because I disagree with a SCOTUS Justice who happens to be black. Also: > The belief that races may be different in average ability with respect to certain characteristics or that members of certain races have their own preferences is not racist. Quoting this for posterity in case you try to edit it out later. Sorry for you, I think you'll find the belief that black people are just not "on average" intelligent enough to be enrolled at university in the same proportion as white people, or that women are just too emotional to be in tech, or whatever, are rather unpopular opinions and likely to get you labeled (indeed, correctly) a racist and a sexist. Good luck with that.
- greggman 10y agoThere was an interesting Intelligence Squared US on Affirmative Action http://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/past-debates/item/1054-affirmative-action-on-campus-does-more-harm-than-good http://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/past-debates/item/1... The side arguing against affirmative action basically claimed they're for the idea of fixing the inequalities but that affirmative action with colleges is actually a net negative. In other words it's not making things more equal it's making them worse. Their argument was basically that most kids inserted into top schools by affirmative action fail because they aren't at the level of the other students. Because they fail they don't become the things we want them to be come (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc) and so the circle of inequality continues. Where as if instead they went to a school with more students at the same level they'd more likely graduate, get the good jobs, and their kids would then make it to the high end schools. A win-win. I don't know if it's true or not. They claimed to have lots of studies to back them up. But regardless it was interesting food for thought. I'd love to have a more diverse workplace both in race and sex. I don't know the best way to get there.