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I know it's boring and very, very hard work. Which is why I believe that we should support stay at home moms (and dads) by elevating the position in society and

I know it's boring and very, very hard work. Which is why I believe that we should support stay at home moms (and dads) by elevating the position in society and recognizing the hard and rewarding work it is. Going back to a career and paying someone to take care of your child is quite frankly the easy way out. Women leaving the workplace to raise kids should be seen as a victory, not a "problem" that needs to be fixed. It's definitely not easy though and all of this media broadcast negativity surrounding being a parent instead of having a career can't make it any easier.

tptacek 10y ago
You didn't answer his question. Can you?
- exstudent2 10y ago
  It doesn't matter what my background is. My argument stands on its own.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
imron 10y ago
> I know it's boring and very, very hard work So you're now agreeing with 'unfulfilling manual labor'?
- exstudent2 10y ago
  hard != unfulfilling. The result is very fulfilling. It's really telling that raising a child being fulfilling is even up for debate.
  - cgriswald 10y ago
    That's the debate only in your own mind. You've completely failed to grasp the not-so-nuanced context. He's not talking about the raising of the child, but the meaningless, but necessary, work that goes with it. Watching my kid succeed at something that I've helped her to learn is very fulfilling. But no matter how much you protest, being a stay-at-home dad was filled with thankless, unfulfilling tasks. I gagged -every- -single- -time- I changed my kid's diapers. The "result" of changing those diapers? Another filled diaper. No matter how much of a rock star she is and becomes, changing diapers wasn't, isn't, and will never be a fulfilling task. And parenting is absolutely filled with similar tasks.
    - imron 10y ago
      > The "result" of changing those diapers? Another filled diaper. I am so looking forward to my kid being toilet trained.
    - exstudent2 10y ago
      I don't understand how you can divorce the hard work that goes into raising a child with the end result of that hard work. When you're changing diapers, do you really not think that you're helping your baby be healthy? That's not rewarding? I know I said in another comment that my background doesn't matter but believe it or not, I'm actually a dad. Yeah, stuff is tough, boring... but I always think that it's worth it because I'm happy being a good dad. The "result" of changing a diaper is that your kid isn't sitting around in their own waste. You can take some pride in making that happen IMO. Also, gagging while changing diapers is a bit weak. You're not really making the case that men are more suited to be stay at home parents :P (jk)
  - imron 10y ago
    hard != unfulfilling. I agree. I was going for boring ≈ unfulfilling. I don't think anyone was talking about whether raising a child is fulfilling or not, rather it was that the process often involves unfulfilling manual labor. Two very different things and you're conflating discussion of latter with the former.
    - exstudent2 10y ago
      Raising a child is nothing but the process. All those long nights, boring days when they're infants... it's all hard work for a good cause. That it's difficult makes it even more rewarding.
tptacek 10y ago
What do you think happens when your kids reach school age? You can kid yourself that changing diapers is part of some noble struggle (it is not), but there's no way to fool yourself during the 7 hours you'll spend waiting for them to get back from school. And, as they get older, those 7 hours become 9, sometimes 12, as they join clubs and go hang out with friends.
- exstudent2 10y ago
  I'll stand by my statement that the hard work you put in when raising an infant is rewarding. Just as cutting firewood to stay warm in the winter would be, but I digress... When they go to school is when the stay at home parent has time to indulge in their actual interests. By that time, if one partner is working and the other is SAH, the finances should be pretty stable so the at home partner should be able to enjoy their free time a bit. I still maintain that a huge part of the problem is that people tie their identity to a career. When the child goes to school, the at home partner should not just sit around watching tv and getting existentially miserable. They should start working on their interests. It's really a valuable opportunity and a bit of a pay off for all the hard work they did when the child was an infant.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - tptacek 10y ago
    Cutting firewood to stay warm in the winter is practically the definition of pointless unfulfilling labor.
    - exstudent2 10y ago
      I think we have very different definitions of unfulfilling. Doing something hard to stay alive is the definition of fulfilling in my book. What does fulfillment mean to you? The task in and of itself has to be rewarding? I'm purely judging by the outcome of the task and not how difficult the task itself is.

tptacek 10y ago

You didn't answer his question. Can you?

exstudent2 10y ago
It doesn't matter what my background is. My argument stands on its own.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

imron 10y ago

> I know it's boring and very, very hard work So you're now agreeing with 'unfulfilling manual labor'?

exstudent2 10y ago
hard != unfulfilling. The result is very fulfilling. It's really telling that raising a child being fulfilling is even up for debate.
- cgriswald 10y ago
  That's the debate only in your own mind. You've completely failed to grasp the not-so-nuanced context. He's not talking about the raising of the child, but the meaningless, but necessary, work that goes with it. Watching my kid succeed at something that I've helped her to learn is very fulfilling. But no matter how much you protest, being a stay-at-home dad was filled with thankless, unfulfilling tasks. I gagged -every- -single- -time- I changed my kid's diapers. The "result" of changing those diapers? Another filled diaper. No matter how much of a rock star she is and becomes, changing diapers wasn't, isn't, and will never be a fulfilling task. And parenting is absolutely filled with similar tasks.
  - imron 10y ago
    > The "result" of changing those diapers? Another filled diaper. I am so looking forward to my kid being toilet trained.
  - exstudent2 10y ago
    I don't understand how you can divorce the hard work that goes into raising a child with the end result of that hard work. When you're changing diapers, do you really not think that you're helping your baby be healthy? That's not rewarding? I know I said in another comment that my background doesn't matter but believe it or not, I'm actually a dad. Yeah, stuff is tough, boring... but I always think that it's worth it because I'm happy being a good dad. The "result" of changing a diaper is that your kid isn't sitting around in their own waste. You can take some pride in making that happen IMO. Also, gagging while changing diapers is a bit weak. You're not really making the case that men are more suited to be stay at home parents :P (jk)
- imron 10y ago
  hard != unfulfilling. I agree. I was going for boring ≈ unfulfilling. I don't think anyone was talking about whether raising a child is fulfilling or not, rather it was that the process often involves unfulfilling manual labor. Two very different things and you're conflating discussion of latter with the former.
  - exstudent2 10y ago
    Raising a child is nothing but the process. All those long nights, boring days when they're infants... it's all hard work for a good cause. That it's difficult makes it even more rewarding.

tptacek 10y ago

What do you think happens when your kids reach school age? You can kid yourself that changing diapers is part of some noble struggle (it is not), but there's no way to fool yourself during the 7 hours you'll spend waiting for them to get back from school. And, as they get older, those 7 hours become 9, sometimes 12, as they join clubs and go hang out with friends.

exstudent2 10y ago
I'll stand by my statement that the hard work you put in when raising an infant is rewarding. Just as cutting firewood to stay warm in the winter would be, but I digress... When they go to school is when the stay at home parent has time to indulge in their actual interests. By that time, if one partner is working and the other is SAH, the finances should be pretty stable so the at home partner should be able to enjoy their free time a bit. I still maintain that a huge part of the problem is that people tie their identity to a career. When the child goes to school, the at home partner should not just sit around watching tv and getting existentially miserable. They should start working on their interests. It's really a valuable opportunity and a bit of a pay off for all the hard work they did when the child was an infant.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tptacek 10y ago
  Cutting firewood to stay warm in the winter is practically the definition of pointless unfulfilling labor.
  - exstudent2 10y ago
    I think we have very different definitions of unfulfilling. Doing something hard to stay alive is the definition of fulfilling in my book. What does fulfillment mean to you? The task in and of itself has to be rewarding? I'm purely judging by the outcome of the task and not how difficult the task itself is.