5 ms·

Honest question, why not just run Windows 10? I find that on older hardware it runs better than Windows 7.

by heywire 10y ago

Nadya 10y ago
I run countless software that is not compatible for some reason or another with Windows 10 and would need to be ran within a VM. In fact, I'd be using Windows 10 to emulate Windows 7 literally 100% of the time. So why not stick with 7 rather than suffer a performance loss from running it within a VM?
- heywire 10y ago
  That is a perfectly valid reason. Some people I've found are just resistant to change, and as such, put everyone else at more risk by using an older OS (thinking more XP than 7 here). Can you share the names of the software you use that doesn't work on Windows 10? I'm really just curious. The product I work on in my day job is a Windows application that started its life as a DOS application and uses a graphics library that was designed around Windows 3.1. We really didn't have do to anything to get it to run on Windows 10. In fact, the only real problems we had were due to us still using some 16-bit compiled applications, and those wouldn't run on the 64-bit version of Windows 10 we had.
  - Nadya 10y ago
    Mostly modified/custom .dll (nameless things) and some games, though many will work if I jump through some hoops. Starcraft 2 was broken for months and I still see occasional reports of it crashing. It crashed for me back when I had given W10 a try. It appears to be driver dependent, but many visual novels don't function or will crash or need to be ran in a compatibility mode (and may be missing audio when if that is done). A few things I rely on have been updated to support, others will never be updated (due to dead development). For example, QTTabBar (a shell extension for Explorer) has been updated for nearly a year. I use W10 at work and have no issues with it. I will probably be purchasing a W10 laptop soon for when I travel. But I have to jump through far too many hoops to update my home machine. My real issue is I should be using a UNIX machine that gives me total control over everything without ugly hacks and disabling half the OS (almost literally...) to do what I want it to do. :) However, back when I built my machine, the games I was playing wouldn't run on Linux so I was stuck with W7. Now my station is so customized that replicating it on Linux isn't worth the effort in my eyes....
CapitalistCartr 10y ago
Whether or not you like it, it should be by consent.
- heywire 10y ago
  100% agree with you. I was just more interested in why they would go through the effort to wipe and reinstall Windows 7 once the upgrade was (forcefully) done.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    Lawyers.
gregatragenet3 10y ago
Because if I wanted to spend the time and energy to learn a new ui it'd be macos not metro. Also, my roommate upgraded her few year old laptop and 10 is much slower than 7.
- heywire 10y ago
  Unless you actively seek out Windows 10 "apps" from the store, you can live pretty much outside of metro. The only times I find myself in any kind of metro app is for some of the settings, but in a lot of cases the equivalent control panel applications are still available.
  - 0x0 10y ago
    Is that an argument for or against windows 10? "You can mostly stay away from metro"? If the switch is inevitable, why not switch to an OS that doesn't force the user to navigate two sets of user interfaces, one of which it sounds like you're almost agreeing is bad? Not calling out you in particular, but I see a lot of people saying "it's not so bad"... In what world is an upgrade where parts are "not so bad" and "avoidable" an upgrade? :)
    - heywire 10y ago
      I'll admit, I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion (I run Arch Linux at home), but for someone who doesn't like metro, Windows 10 can be used almost the same as Windows 7. I really wish they'd make the LTSB Enterprise version available to consumers as a kind of "stable" version. I've used it at work, and I find it to be nice and lightweight compared to the pro version.
ourmandave 10y ago
I read a lot of people's comments of how their older PCs were bricked while I was fixing two issues when my laptop from 2009 was force upgraded. I wait until there's been a service pack release before ever installing a new OS. Also I was perfectly happy with Win7.
- JonathonW 10y ago
  Microsoft's not using the "service pack" terminology any more, but Windows 10 has already had the equivalent of a service pack (the November update/1511) and is scheduled to get a second at some point this summer (currently in testing and called the Anniversary update). They're also pushing out non-security bugfixes faster than they have in the past; the monthly Cumulative Update packages include security and non-security fixes, including some of the sort of hotfixes you might've had to call MS Support for back in the XP era.
marssaxman 10y ago
Why should Microsoft get to decide what someone does with their computer? Is it Microsoft's computer?
- heywire 10y ago
  Oh, I completely agree with you here. I was just curious why they chose 7 over 10.
  - marssaxman 10y ago
    Oh, that is a much more interesting question!
- cm2187 10y ago
  And is it Microsoft's data?
  - heywire 10y ago
    I'm sure there's a line in the EULA claiming that. /s (mostly)
mhw 10y ago
At one point my ThinkPad wouldn't reconnect to wifi after suspend/resume when running Windows 10. That seems to have fixed itself, but I've no idea which update might have solved the problem or even if it was an update. Now Windows 10 is refusing to recognise the Logitech wireless mouse USB receiver that works fine under Linux and also worked fine under Windows until a few weeks ago. Honestly, I think Windows now has worse support for legacy hardware than Linux.
- zxcvcxz 10y ago
  >Honestly, I think Windows now has worse support for legacy hardware than Linux. I don't know where people got the idea that Windows ever had good hardware support. I switched to Linux right after win7 came out because it ran like shit on my laptop. It said my graphics drivers didn't support aero transparency but my laptop graphics supported transparency on Linux and a whole bunch of other cool shit with compiz and Linux ran flawlessly.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    I hear that linux run flawlessly now, and got massively downvoted when I claimed that this wasn't my experience a couple of months ago. I since decided to try it again. I purchased a lenovo T460p, and I picked that model specifically because it was on ubuntu's list of certified devices. When the laptop switches on, it makes a horrible sound which reminds me of my 8bit audio days. And impossible to connect an external monitor, while the same laptop on windows could drive a 4K monitor. And couldn't find any useful fix on google. I am sorry but linux desktop is far far from being ready for primetime.
    - zxcvcxz 10y ago
      >lenovo T460p That model comes with Ubuntu pre-installed and it does run flawlessly. I've seen people run ubuntu on it my self. So perhaps there was some other problems. I can't find a single bad review except yours.
      - 10y ago
wolfgke 10y ago
> Honest question, why not just run Windows 10? Because of the built-in spy functions (in Germany this is a highly sensitive topic for the two dictatorial regimes on German ground in the 20th century where lots of people went to prison because of the surveillance). With Windows 10, Microsoft infringed the acceptability line for this. Further dubious point on Windows 10 are that Windows 10 will be the first version that also supports Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX). If you don't know about this sensitive topic, go read about it.
cm2187 10y ago
Because of the spyware, because of the in-system ads, because of the two control panels, because of the frequent and uncontrollable forced reboots, because of all the embedded nagware (try skype, try office, try onedrive, try cortana, try candycrunch, try bing - it will make your premium laptop feel like a cheap device purchased at Walmart). Let's be honest, it's a junk OS. And because if you upgrade you loose control of what features you will get (microsoft will force you to accept updates and upgrades), and God knows what other moronic decisions the guys who brought you windows 8's "all apps full screen", the contextual menu at the other side of the screen (bright idea on a 4k monitor!), etc, will force on you with no way to opt out. And the cavalier approach that Microsoft is adopting to force that upgrade on their users is obliterating the little faith and goodwill I had.
khedoros 10y ago
For my part, it started with a distaste for the Win8 UI, and the fact that they didn't pull every bit of that out from 10. I played with one of the dev previews for a bit (a couple hours, probably), and I didn't like that the local OS pushed for connections to online resources (Cortana, the default assumption that you'll link your MSN account to the machine). I really dislike features that blur the line between my computer and the internet. I don't like the forced-schedule updates, especially when Microsoft is increasingly using the update mechanism for behavioral changes in the OS. Those are things that I would've probably come to terms with sometime, or taken the time to find a work-around for. At one point, I'd made the decision that after a couple of years of Win10 being out, I'd consider an upgrade (assuming that the claims of increased performance stood up in the real world). What completely turned me against it is the determination with which they've decided to pursue getting people to use it, going as far as several levels of trickery. It's the difference between "Here, have a cookie if you'd like." and "Eat this cookie. Now." that upsets me.
DrScump 10y ago
< I find that on older hardware it runs better than Windows 7.> Great. Now, please tell me how to make my hardware older.
- heywire 10y ago
  There. It's older.
  - DrScump 10y ago
    But how do I make it olderer enough to be better on Windows 10? I still don't understand why this doesn't trigger anti-trust scrutiny. Anyway, I just installed GRC Never10[0], so let's see what happens. I'm guessing MS will roll out a new update to work around it, too. [0] https://www.grc.com/never10.htm https://www.grc.com/never10.htm
- nisse72 10y ago
  It happens automatically. There is no "cancel" button.
JdeBP 10y ago
Others have given different reasons. Mine, as explained at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416488 , are that Windows 10 lacks the subsystem and toolsets that are a major part of my use of Windows 7. Microsoft removed them from the operating system.

Honest question, why not just run Windows 10? I find that on older hardware it runs better than Windows 7.

by heywire 10y ago

Honest question, why not just run Windows 10? I find that on older hardware it runs better than Windows 7.

Nadya 10y ago

I run countless software that is not compatible for some reason or another with Windows 10 and would need to be ran within a VM. In fact, I'd be using Windows 10 to emulate Windows 7 literally 100% of the time. So why not stick with 7 rather than suffer a performance loss from running it within a VM?

heywire 10y ago
That is a perfectly valid reason. Some people I've found are just resistant to change, and as such, put everyone else at more risk by using an older OS (thinking more XP than 7 here). Can you share the names of the software you use that doesn't work on Windows 10? I'm really just curious. The product I work on in my day job is a Windows application that started its life as a DOS application and uses a graphics library that was designed around Windows 3.1. We really didn't have do to anything to get it to run on Windows 10. In fact, the only real problems we had were due to us still using some 16-bit compiled applications, and those wouldn't run on the 64-bit version of Windows 10 we had.
- Nadya 10y ago
  Mostly modified/custom .dll (nameless things) and some games, though many will work if I jump through some hoops. Starcraft 2 was broken for months and I still see occasional reports of it crashing. It crashed for me back when I had given W10 a try. It appears to be driver dependent, but many visual novels don't function or will crash or need to be ran in a compatibility mode (and may be missing audio when if that is done). A few things I rely on have been updated to support, others will never be updated (due to dead development). For example, QTTabBar (a shell extension for Explorer) has been updated for nearly a year. I use W10 at work and have no issues with it. I will probably be purchasing a W10 laptop soon for when I travel. But I have to jump through far too many hoops to update my home machine. My real issue is I should be using a UNIX machine that gives me total control over everything without ugly hacks and disabling half the OS (almost literally...) to do what I want it to do. :) However, back when I built my machine, the games I was playing wouldn't run on Linux so I was stuck with W7. Now my station is so customized that replicating it on Linux isn't worth the effort in my eyes....

CapitalistCartr 10y ago

Whether or not you like it, it should be by consent.

heywire 10y ago
100% agree with you. I was just more interested in why they would go through the effort to wipe and reinstall Windows 7 once the upgrade was (forcefully) done.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  Lawyers.

gregatragenet3 10y ago

Because if I wanted to spend the time and energy to learn a new ui it'd be macos not metro. Also, my roommate upgraded her few year old laptop and 10 is much slower than 7.

heywire 10y ago
Unless you actively seek out Windows 10 "apps" from the store, you can live pretty much outside of metro. The only times I find myself in any kind of metro app is for some of the settings, but in a lot of cases the equivalent control panel applications are still available.
- 0x0 10y ago
  Is that an argument for or against windows 10? "You can mostly stay away from metro"? If the switch is inevitable, why not switch to an OS that doesn't force the user to navigate two sets of user interfaces, one of which it sounds like you're almost agreeing is bad? Not calling out you in particular, but I see a lot of people saying "it's not so bad"... In what world is an upgrade where parts are "not so bad" and "avoidable" an upgrade? :)
  - heywire 10y ago
    I'll admit, I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion (I run Arch Linux at home), but for someone who doesn't like metro, Windows 10 can be used almost the same as Windows 7. I really wish they'd make the LTSB Enterprise version available to consumers as a kind of "stable" version. I've used it at work, and I find it to be nice and lightweight compared to the pro version.

ourmandave 10y ago

I read a lot of people's comments of how their older PCs were bricked while I was fixing two issues when my laptop from 2009 was force upgraded. I wait until there's been a service pack release before ever installing a new OS. Also I was perfectly happy with Win7.

JonathonW 10y ago
Microsoft's not using the "service pack" terminology any more, but Windows 10 has already had the equivalent of a service pack (the November update/1511) and is scheduled to get a second at some point this summer (currently in testing and called the Anniversary update). They're also pushing out non-security bugfixes faster than they have in the past; the monthly Cumulative Update packages include security and non-security fixes, including some of the sort of hotfixes you might've had to call MS Support for back in the XP era.

marssaxman 10y ago

Why should Microsoft get to decide what someone does with their computer? Is it Microsoft's computer?

heywire 10y ago
Oh, I completely agree with you here. I was just curious why they chose 7 over 10.
- marssaxman 10y ago
  Oh, that is a much more interesting question!
cm2187 10y ago
And is it Microsoft's data?
- heywire 10y ago
  I'm sure there's a line in the EULA claiming that. /s (mostly)

mhw 10y ago

At one point my ThinkPad wouldn't reconnect to wifi after suspend/resume when running Windows 10. That seems to have fixed itself, but I've no idea which update might have solved the problem or even if it was an update. Now Windows 10 is refusing to recognise the Logitech wireless mouse USB receiver that works fine under Linux and also worked fine under Windows until a few weeks ago. Honestly, I think Windows now has worse support for legacy hardware than Linux.

zxcvcxz 10y ago
>Honestly, I think Windows now has worse support for legacy hardware than Linux. I don't know where people got the idea that Windows ever had good hardware support. I switched to Linux right after win7 came out because it ran like shit on my laptop. It said my graphics drivers didn't support aero transparency but my laptop graphics supported transparency on Linux and a whole bunch of other cool shit with compiz and Linux ran flawlessly.
- cm2187 10y ago
  I hear that linux run flawlessly now, and got massively downvoted when I claimed that this wasn't my experience a couple of months ago. I since decided to try it again. I purchased a lenovo T460p, and I picked that model specifically because it was on ubuntu's list of certified devices. When the laptop switches on, it makes a horrible sound which reminds me of my 8bit audio days. And impossible to connect an external monitor, while the same laptop on windows could drive a 4K monitor. And couldn't find any useful fix on google. I am sorry but linux desktop is far far from being ready for primetime.
  - zxcvcxz 10y ago
    >lenovo T460p That model comes with Ubuntu pre-installed and it does run flawlessly. I've seen people run ubuntu on it my self. So perhaps there was some other problems. I can't find a single bad review except yours.
    - 10y ago

wolfgke 10y ago

> Honest question, why not just run Windows 10? Because of the built-in spy functions (in Germany this is a highly sensitive topic for the two dictatorial regimes on German ground in the 20th century where lots of people went to prison because of the surveillance). With Windows 10, Microsoft infringed the acceptability line for this. Further dubious point on Windows 10 are that Windows 10 will be the first version that also supports Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX). If you don't know about this sensitive topic, go read about it.

cm2187 10y ago

Because of the spyware, because of the in-system ads, because of the two control panels, because of the frequent and uncontrollable forced reboots, because of all the embedded nagware (try skype, try office, try onedrive, try cortana, try candycrunch, try bing - it will make your premium laptop feel like a cheap device purchased at Walmart). Let's be honest, it's a junk OS. And because if you upgrade you loose control of what features you will get (microsoft will force you to accept updates and upgrades), and God knows what other moronic decisions the guys who brought you windows 8's "all apps full screen", the contextual menu at the other side of the screen (bright idea on a 4k monitor!), etc, will force on you with no way to opt out. And the cavalier approach that Microsoft is adopting to force that upgrade on their users is obliterating the little faith and goodwill I had.

khedoros 10y ago

For my part, it started with a distaste for the Win8 UI, and the fact that they didn't pull every bit of that out from 10. I played with one of the dev previews for a bit (a couple hours, probably), and I didn't like that the local OS pushed for connections to online resources (Cortana, the default assumption that you'll link your MSN account to the machine). I really dislike features that blur the line between my computer and the internet. I don't like the forced-schedule updates, especially when Microsoft is increasingly using the update mechanism for behavioral changes in the OS. Those are things that I would've probably come to terms with sometime, or taken the time to find a work-around for. At one point, I'd made the decision that after a couple of years of Win10 being out, I'd consider an upgrade (assuming that the claims of increased performance stood up in the real world). What completely turned me against it is the determination with which they've decided to pursue getting people to use it, going as far as several levels of trickery. It's the difference between "Here, have a cookie if you'd like." and "Eat this cookie. Now." that upsets me.

DrScump 10y ago

< I find that on older hardware it runs better than Windows 7.> Great. Now, please tell me how to make my hardware older.

heywire 10y ago
There. It's older.
- DrScump 10y ago
  But how do I make it olderer enough to be better on Windows 10? I still don't understand why this doesn't trigger anti-trust scrutiny. Anyway, I just installed GRC Never10[0], so let's see what happens. I'm guessing MS will roll out a new update to work around it, too. [0] https://www.grc.com/never10.htm https://www.grc.com/never10.htm
nisse72 10y ago
It happens automatically. There is no "cancel" button.

JdeBP 10y ago

Others have given different reasons. Mine, as explained at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416488 , are that Windows 10 lacks the subsystem and toolsets that are a major part of my use of Windows 7. Microsoft removed them from the operating system.