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I always assumed that AI consciousness would be an emergent property, not a feature we would (or even could) effectively develop towards.

by Zikes 10y ago

ArkyBeagle 10y ago
Chomsky shrugs that human consciousness - or at least language; good luck separating those - is an emergent property. So yeah.
- rspeer 10y ago
  That seems downright nuanced for Chomsky talking about language. Did he really say this? Chomsky considers language to be a thing that physically evolved in humans. Are eyes an emergent property?
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    "Did he really say this?" That is my interpretation of what he'd said - there's no obvious evolutionary/natural selection ... impetus to it. Doesn't that make it necessarily emergent? Eyes on the front are common to nearly all predators. I think the contrast between octopus eyes and human eyes is used frequently to deduce that eyes are indeed emergent. But we have nothing on the raptors.
    - rspeer 10y ago
      It's just, calling language emergent sounds close to the view that you have to whisper furtively when you get too close to MIT: that maybe there was no evolutionary event that created language at all, it's just a really good meme[1] that makes use of other faculties that already existed in the human brain. Maybe universal grammar isn't a physical fact about the possible ways the human brain can communicate, it's just that if we observe 6,000 variations on an idea with the same[2] origin and try hard enough to sum them up, we'll succeed. [1] In the original sense. [2] Or similar origins. Maybe language is a good enough idea to arise multiple times and converge, much like eyes. And I'm not sure whether to count things like Nicaraguan Sign Language as a separate origin of language.
visarga 10y ago
> I always assumed that AI consciousness would be an emergent property I think it's just perception, attention, memory, imagination and behavior learning. We have made progress on all these fields, so there is reason for optimism. To make an analogy with AlphaGo - before the match, everyone was incredulous about it. After the match, we were stunned, but it was real. In just a few months a computer learned to beat the best human at Go. The same will be with reasoning and other high level skills. > not a feature we would (or even could) effectively develop towards. We, the people, are made of the same stuff as computers. We have no magic dust in us. There is no reason for consciousness to be unique to our particular way.

I always assumed that AI consciousness would be an emergent property, not a feature we would (or even could) effectively develop towards.

by Zikes 10y ago

I always assumed that AI consciousness would be an emergent property, not a feature we would (or even could) effectively develop towards.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

Chomsky shrugs that human consciousness - or at least language; good luck separating those - is an emergent property. So yeah.

rspeer 10y ago
That seems downright nuanced for Chomsky talking about language. Did he really say this? Chomsky considers language to be a thing that physically evolved in humans. Are eyes an emergent property?
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  "Did he really say this?" That is my interpretation of what he'd said - there's no obvious evolutionary/natural selection ... impetus to it. Doesn't that make it necessarily emergent? Eyes on the front are common to nearly all predators. I think the contrast between octopus eyes and human eyes is used frequently to deduce that eyes are indeed emergent. But we have nothing on the raptors.
  - rspeer 10y ago
    It's just, calling language emergent sounds close to the view that you have to whisper furtively when you get too close to MIT: that maybe there was no evolutionary event that created language at all, it's just a really good meme[1] that makes use of other faculties that already existed in the human brain. Maybe universal grammar isn't a physical fact about the possible ways the human brain can communicate, it's just that if we observe 6,000 variations on an idea with the same[2] origin and try hard enough to sum them up, we'll succeed. [1] In the original sense. [2] Or similar origins. Maybe language is a good enough idea to arise multiple times and converge, much like eyes. And I'm not sure whether to count things like Nicaraguan Sign Language as a separate origin of language.

visarga 10y ago

> I always assumed that AI consciousness would be an emergent property I think it's just perception, attention, memory, imagination and behavior learning. We have made progress on all these fields, so there is reason for optimism. To make an analogy with AlphaGo - before the match, everyone was incredulous about it. After the match, we were stunned, but it was real. In just a few months a computer learned to beat the best human at Go. The same will be with reasoning and other high level skills. > not a feature we would (or even could) effectively develop towards. We, the people, are made of the same stuff as computers. We have no magic dust in us. There is no reason for consciousness to be unique to our particular way.