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So, what, everyone is cool with owncloud pushing encryption-breaking updates? What the fuck is that about? The way apologists step up to the defense of stuff l

by tomc1985 10y ago

So, what, everyone is cool with owncloud pushing encryption-breaking updates? What the fuck is that about? The way apologists step up to the defense of stuff like this is appalling. The 'hard' stuff like this is supposed to be dealt with before the public release. Just because one has a backup doesn't mean that other programmers should force them to rely on it (whether they intended to or not... the point is that this kind of thing should never happen) I am beginning to feel like we should start figuratively burning people at the stake for advertently or inadvertently destroying other peoples' data -- it is a sin about as cardinal as they get; and it seems many programmers are clearly not very scared of such an outcome. Wiping/bricking/rendering inaccessible your customers' data should be causing people to shit bricks, not go on the defensive. Normals HATE technology bullshit like this. They just want it to work. Failures like these make the entire field look bad.

CaptSpify 10y ago
I don't think I've seen anyone say owncloud is not responsible. Yes, they fucked up, and royally. But in the end, you can't trust them to not fuck up. You have to trust that they will make a mistake, so be prepared for it. Doing backups right is just really hard.
- tomc1985 10y ago
  Maybe, but at the time of writing many of the responses here felt like the comment I originally replied to -- splitting hairs over pedantics and blaming the user for not testing his backups well enough. I still feel very strongly that he shouldn't have to
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    > I still feel very strongly that he shouldn't have to As nice as that idea is, I don't think we have the tech yet to fully trust someone else with your data. You have to test it out that your backups work. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling snake-oil at best.
- mcherm 10y ago
  > Doing backups right is just really hard. Which, I think, was alexggordon's point. That he no longer wanted to manage the data himself because it was a hard problem, better managed by teams of professionals who have the time to do things like verify backups because they can amortize the cost of that effort over tens of thousands of customers.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    But unless you give them access to decrypt the data, you can't trust them to make sure it's valid. It doesn't matter how good they are at their job.
    - mcherm 10y ago
      One can confirm that the backup restores byte-for-byte the same data that was archived. That would be sufficient for me!
RaleyField 10y ago
> Normals HATE technology bullshit like this. Judging by the frequency of security breaches they don't hate it nearly as much as we would want.

CaptSpify 10y ago

I don't think I've seen anyone say owncloud is not responsible. Yes, they fucked up, and royally. But in the end, you can't trust them to not fuck up. You have to trust that they will make a mistake, so be prepared for it. Doing backups right is just really hard.

tomc1985 10y ago
Maybe, but at the time of writing many of the responses here felt like the comment I originally replied to -- splitting hairs over pedantics and blaming the user for not testing his backups well enough. I still feel very strongly that he shouldn't have to
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  > I still feel very strongly that he shouldn't have to As nice as that idea is, I don't think we have the tech yet to fully trust someone else with your data. You have to test it out that your backups work. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling snake-oil at best.
mcherm 10y ago
> Doing backups right is just really hard. Which, I think, was alexggordon's point. That he no longer wanted to manage the data himself because it was a hard problem, better managed by teams of professionals who have the time to do things like verify backups because they can amortize the cost of that effort over tens of thousands of customers.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  But unless you give them access to decrypt the data, you can't trust them to make sure it's valid. It doesn't matter how good they are at their job.
  - mcherm 10y ago
    One can confirm that the backup restores byte-for-byte the same data that was archived. That would be sufficient for me!

RaleyField 10y ago

> Normals HATE technology bullshit like this. Judging by the frequency of security breaches they don't hate it nearly as much as we would want.