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Slightly OT question: Would the Pebble 2 be useful as a privacy-respecting health tracker? I am looking for a device for long-term heart-rate tracking (additio

Slightly OT question: Would the Pebble 2 be useful as a privacy-respecting health tracker? I am looking for a device for long-term heart-rate tracking (additional included gimmicks appreciated). But I am worried about things like: Does the health app upload to cloud services? If so, can it be turned off? Is the Bluetooth synchronization protocol documented to support open-source app implementations?

fra 10y ago
Pebble engineer here > Does the health app upload to cloud services? If so, can it be turned off? It does by default, but you can disable it. I'm actually working on making those options more user friendly :). > Is the Bluetooth synchronization protocol documented to support open-source app implementations? Not officially, but we've published open source implementations of at least part of the protocol (see libpebble). Several unofficial implementations followed (e.g. a Blackberry app, among others).
- dave2000 10y ago
  Blackberry, eh? Good choice! How's the Psion Revo support coming along?
  - fra 10y ago
    No bluetooth on the Psion Revo :(
  - erohead 10y ago
    Our psion support only goes up to Series 5, sorry.
- chinathrow 10y ago
  Health data per default uploaded, are you honestly nuts?
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    They're not nuts. It's the standard default everywhere. Remind me, who else does allow to disable that upload?
    - chinathrow 10y ago
      Even worse if everyone does it. Sometimes I wish that some wearable companies get slapped in EU courts for violating the now-defunct safe harbour with personal health data.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        I wish that too, but in the meantime, if everyone is doing something wrong, then let's give some praise to those who are doing it less wrong - this way we can create an incentive for others to follow.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sp332 10y ago
The built-in apps seem to be heavily cloud-based. You can turn them off but you can't use them in local-only mode. However there are third-party apps that can collect data on the watch and store it on your phone. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few that keep data on the watch itself. Edit: Sibling says you can disable uploading, but I just looked through all the menus on my Android app and can't see how.
- darklajid 10y ago
  After an exchange here (and fra answering that very question as well) the Pebble support team explicitly wrote this in a mail: -- So Usage Logs send step count, and sleep count, to Pebble's servers. Usage Logs are also necessary for Voice responses. The voice is sent to our voice service, transcribed and sent back (this voice data is not stored at any point). You can use the Pebble Health app with the Usage Logs switch off and your data will not be sent to Pebble's servers. You can also sync that data to either Google Fit or Apple Health if you choose while still keeping the Usage Logs switched off. -- In other words: 'Usage logs' seems to be the all-in-one switch that sends the data to the cloud, everything Peble Health related should work if you disable that. Ignoring the limitation mentioned: You won't be able to use voice replies. So I'd say that the Pebble is a really decent choice for a privacy concerned person. On that note: I certainly hope that Alexa can be disabled on the Pebble Core..
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    > On that note: I certainly hope that Alexa can be disabled on the Pebble Core.. It should be. a) Pebble Core is described as a pure Android device (i.e. easily rootable, no permanent preloaded crap), and b) they answered on Reddit that Alexa requires you to authenticate with your Amazon account, which you don't have to do - and then Alexa won't be enabled.
jbombadil 10y ago
I would not advise to use or buy pebble if you're concerned about privacy. As a company, they don't seem to be particularly interested in it. For example: I was investigating some time ago (might have been updated) how to register a new pin in the timeline from the phone and apparently the way to do it was to send the contents of it to Pebble servers. Assuming their app uses the same API, it means every single calendar item you see in your timeline is actually sent (and possibly logged) in their servers. I raised this point to their support and in pebble forums and got no answer.
- xyzzy_plugh 10y ago
  I assume this is because there may not be sufficient storage on the watch itself, nor the phone, and you don't want to drop potentially important data! My understanding is that all the data (apps, notifications, etc.) on the watch effectively sits in a cache, which pulls from the phone which is just a secondary cache of all your stuff in their cloud. This removes storage as a limitation. Then it just becomes a matter of ensuring your most pertinent data is in the right caches. I agree however that it would be nice for Pebble to explain how they protect your personal data in their cloud. Hopefully they don't mine/sell it.
  - roblabla 10y ago
    Sure, but it should be possible to only keep the data on your phone, and not let it leak all the way to the pebble cloud. It's a bit of a strange decision to force people to use their cloud :|.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      Yeah. Personally I don't care that much about what they're doing with the data on their cloud, but it seems weird that my watchapp (or a companion app) needs to talk to the Internet at large to push pins onto the watch timeline. Doubly weird because I hoped to use it for pushing data generated by my phone, and there's no reason this shouldn't work completely off-line.
- unwiredben 10y ago

fra 10y ago

Pebble engineer here > Does the health app upload to cloud services? If so, can it be turned off? It does by default, but you can disable it. I'm actually working on making those options more user friendly :). > Is the Bluetooth synchronization protocol documented to support open-source app implementations? Not officially, but we've published open source implementations of at least part of the protocol (see libpebble). Several unofficial implementations followed (e.g. a Blackberry app, among others).

dave2000 10y ago
Blackberry, eh? Good choice! How's the Psion Revo support coming along?
- fra 10y ago
  No bluetooth on the Psion Revo :(
- erohead 10y ago
  Our psion support only goes up to Series 5, sorry.
chinathrow 10y ago
Health data per default uploaded, are you honestly nuts?
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  They're not nuts. It's the standard default everywhere. Remind me, who else does allow to disable that upload?
  - chinathrow 10y ago
    Even worse if everyone does it. Sometimes I wish that some wearable companies get slapped in EU courts for violating the now-defunct safe harbour with personal health data.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      I wish that too, but in the meantime, if everyone is doing something wrong, then let's give some praise to those who are doing it less wrong - this way we can create an incentive for others to follow.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

sp332 10y ago

The built-in apps seem to be heavily cloud-based. You can turn them off but you can't use them in local-only mode. However there are third-party apps that can collect data on the watch and store it on your phone. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few that keep data on the watch itself. Edit: Sibling says you can disable uploading, but I just looked through all the menus on my Android app and can't see how.

darklajid 10y ago
After an exchange here (and fra answering that very question as well) the Pebble support team explicitly wrote this in a mail: -- So Usage Logs send step count, and sleep count, to Pebble's servers. Usage Logs are also necessary for Voice responses. The voice is sent to our voice service, transcribed and sent back (this voice data is not stored at any point). You can use the Pebble Health app with the Usage Logs switch off and your data will not be sent to Pebble's servers. You can also sync that data to either Google Fit or Apple Health if you choose while still keeping the Usage Logs switched off. -- In other words: 'Usage logs' seems to be the all-in-one switch that sends the data to the cloud, everything Peble Health related should work if you disable that. Ignoring the limitation mentioned: You won't be able to use voice replies. So I'd say that the Pebble is a really decent choice for a privacy concerned person. On that note: I certainly hope that Alexa can be disabled on the Pebble Core..
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  > On that note: I certainly hope that Alexa can be disabled on the Pebble Core.. It should be. a) Pebble Core is described as a pure Android device (i.e. easily rootable, no permanent preloaded crap), and b) they answered on Reddit that Alexa requires you to authenticate with your Amazon account, which you don't have to do - and then Alexa won't be enabled.

jbombadil 10y ago

I would not advise to use or buy pebble if you're concerned about privacy. As a company, they don't seem to be particularly interested in it. For example: I was investigating some time ago (might have been updated) how to register a new pin in the timeline from the phone and apparently the way to do it was to send the contents of it to Pebble servers. Assuming their app uses the same API, it means every single calendar item you see in your timeline is actually sent (and possibly logged) in their servers. I raised this point to their support and in pebble forums and got no answer.

xyzzy_plugh 10y ago
I assume this is because there may not be sufficient storage on the watch itself, nor the phone, and you don't want to drop potentially important data! My understanding is that all the data (apps, notifications, etc.) on the watch effectively sits in a cache, which pulls from the phone which is just a secondary cache of all your stuff in their cloud. This removes storage as a limitation. Then it just becomes a matter of ensuring your most pertinent data is in the right caches. I agree however that it would be nice for Pebble to explain how they protect your personal data in their cloud. Hopefully they don't mine/sell it.
- roblabla 10y ago
  Sure, but it should be possible to only keep the data on your phone, and not let it leak all the way to the pebble cloud. It's a bit of a strange decision to force people to use their cloud :|.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    Yeah. Personally I don't care that much about what they're doing with the data on their cloud, but it seems weird that my watchapp (or a companion app) needs to talk to the Internet at large to push pins onto the watch timeline. Doubly weird because I hoped to use it for pushing data generated by my phone, and there's no reason this shouldn't work completely off-line.
unwiredben 10y ago