3 ms·

Apple should be starting to get worried. They had a good lead in innovation but it looks like "everyone else" is catching up again. If apple isn't bleeding edge

Apple should be starting to get worried. They had a good lead in innovation but it looks like "everyone else" is catching up again. If apple isn't bleeding edge anymore, is it relevant?

dsugarman 10y ago
to me it felt like Samsung had a much better product until Apple caught up with the iPhone 6, it feels like a long time since Apple was "bleeding edge".
- ricksplat 10y ago
  They still just inch it IMHO - but fading fast
  - ricksplat 10y ago
    not a few Apple shills on here I see.
    - ricksplat 10y ago
      Just so ye know - PR, managing expectations and policing discussions boards aren't a good way to promote a high end devices company. Developing high end devices is, and useful services to go with them is "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - a quote I'm sure Jobs was familiar with.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." If XXI century is proving anything it's that while Nature cannot be fooled, humans can, and rather trivially so. More and more businesses have discovered that spending money on marketing has much better ROI than spending it on making a useful, valuable product. Want a quick proof in a tech sphere? Just look at the IoT market.
        ricksplat 10y ago
        I don't think that's any proof - like you say it's "burgeoning" and complaints abound on security and reliability. I doubt it makes a huge amount of money at this stage. I don't believe the 21st century has shown that at all - it wasn't marketing that made apple the behoemeth that it is ("it just works" was more than just a slogan). Look at the declining fortunes of IBM & HP?? Yeah individuals can be fooled, but en mass things revert to a nature state. "you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" as true in this century as the last
mikestew 10y ago
Anyone relying on "notifications" to define their wrist-worn device is in big trouble. I just bought a Garmin Fenix after debating to: wait and see what Apple has at WWDC, or wait for the Pebble to ship. I ended up with the Fenix, and commented to the wife: "notifications is the baseline, hell, just about everything in Garmin's lineup can do that, and that's not their main business." So we see Pebble trying to define themselves with something other than just "you have mail!", only on your wrist. To me, Apple seems to be trying to do to much to not just be "notifications on your wrist", but not doing any of it all that well. I ended up with the Fenix because after two versions of Pebbles it seems my main use case for a wrist-worn device is fitness stuff, which Garmin does really well. Pebble looks to be trying in this next iteration. But do I wait on Pebble and take a chance they get fitness right, or do I get the watch from the company I've been buying from for years and have been happy with, now with wrist notifications? Apple's a non-starter, given that I have to bring a phone on runs (umm...no). In summary, when buying a thing that goes on my wrist, notifications are a given. What else do you have to offer? And that differentiation is what will decide winners and losers, IMO.
- ricksplat 10y ago
  >we see Pebble trying to define themselves with something other than just "you have mail!" In fairness with the Pebble Core, we have just that. I love the idea and I can't think of anybody that's tried anything like it. A cross between a iPod shuffle, a wireless modem and a keyfob. I really like the concept as a personal area network focus besides my phone. Oh, and as regards "just" being a notifications device - bear in mind Pebble were the first, it's simple, and they're cheap. Three areas the Apple Watch just can't compete on. They've gone all wrong - it wasn't glamour that made Apple - it was solid quality engineering-led product development.
  - mikestew 10y ago
    Oh, I'm trying to be fair, and I see Pebble's branching out as a good thing for them. I just don't see them sticking around otherwise. But I wasn't going to pre-order (oh, sorry, "back") the next Pebble in the hopes that it can match Garmin by September. As I also told my wife, "getting notifications to a Bluetooth-enabled device is a (mostly) solved problem. Getting the fitness aspects right is a much tougher problem". Pebble has shown evidence of figuring things out after a few iterations, so they can pull it off. Yes, Pebble's big selling point is price. But they also show their inexpensive price. My Pebble Time Steel is a scratch and scuff magnet. The bezel is huge. But you get what you pay for, and I still feel the Pebbles are a good value. Hell, the Fenix is a $600 device. Sure, it has sapphire glass and hardy exterior, alitimeter/compass/barometer, but still...$600. I can put the Fenix to good use and get my money out of it (big runner and hiker), but I'm guessing I'm not the mass market. Apple, though, I dunno. Sure, they've sold bazillions of Apple Watches, but I'm not sure where they go from there to justify the price. Ours is an Apple household, but the Watch was never on the radar for us. No GPS in the device was the deal-breaker for me (see: fitness features), because I'm not going to carry a phone while running. Other aspects didn't work for me, but if the Watch were just a bit more money than the Pebble I might have gotten one. But it's a lot more money. Again, maybe I'm outside their intended demographic, and not well-qualified to say what the future holds for Apple's device, but I just didn't see the value.

Apple should be starting to get worried. They had a good lead in innovation but it looks like "everyone else" is catching up again. If apple isn't bleeding edge anymore, is it relevant?

dsugarman 10y ago

to me it felt like Samsung had a much better product until Apple caught up with the iPhone 6, it feels like a long time since Apple was "bleeding edge".

ricksplat 10y ago
They still just inch it IMHO - but fading fast
- ricksplat 10y ago
  not a few Apple shills on here I see.
  - ricksplat 10y ago
    Just so ye know - PR, managing expectations and policing discussions boards aren't a good way to promote a high end devices company. Developing high end devices is, and useful services to go with them is "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - a quote I'm sure Jobs was familiar with.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." If XXI century is proving anything it's that while Nature cannot be fooled, humans can, and rather trivially so. More and more businesses have discovered that spending money on marketing has much better ROI than spending it on making a useful, valuable product. Want a quick proof in a tech sphere? Just look at the IoT market.
      - ricksplat 10y ago
        I don't think that's any proof - like you say it's "burgeoning" and complaints abound on security and reliability. I doubt it makes a huge amount of money at this stage. I don't believe the 21st century has shown that at all - it wasn't marketing that made apple the behoemeth that it is ("it just works" was more than just a slogan). Look at the declining fortunes of IBM & HP?? Yeah individuals can be fooled, but en mass things revert to a nature state. "you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" as true in this century as the last

mikestew 10y ago

Anyone relying on "notifications" to define their wrist-worn device is in big trouble. I just bought a Garmin Fenix after debating to: wait and see what Apple has at WWDC, or wait for the Pebble to ship. I ended up with the Fenix, and commented to the wife: "notifications is the baseline, hell, just about everything in Garmin's lineup can do that, and that's not their main business." So we see Pebble trying to define themselves with something other than just "you have mail!", only on your wrist. To me, Apple seems to be trying to do to much to not just be "notifications on your wrist", but not doing any of it all that well. I ended up with the Fenix because after two versions of Pebbles it seems my main use case for a wrist-worn device is fitness stuff, which Garmin does really well. Pebble looks to be trying in this next iteration. But do I wait on Pebble and take a chance they get fitness right, or do I get the watch from the company I've been buying from for years and have been happy with, now with wrist notifications? Apple's a non-starter, given that I have to bring a phone on runs (umm...no). In summary, when buying a thing that goes on my wrist, notifications are a given. What else do you have to offer? And that differentiation is what will decide winners and losers, IMO.

ricksplat 10y ago
>we see Pebble trying to define themselves with something other than just "you have mail!" In fairness with the Pebble Core, we have just that. I love the idea and I can't think of anybody that's tried anything like it. A cross between a iPod shuffle, a wireless modem and a keyfob. I really like the concept as a personal area network focus besides my phone. Oh, and as regards "just" being a notifications device - bear in mind Pebble were the first, it's simple, and they're cheap. Three areas the Apple Watch just can't compete on. They've gone all wrong - it wasn't glamour that made Apple - it was solid quality engineering-led product development.
- mikestew 10y ago
  Oh, I'm trying to be fair, and I see Pebble's branching out as a good thing for them. I just don't see them sticking around otherwise. But I wasn't going to pre-order (oh, sorry, "back") the next Pebble in the hopes that it can match Garmin by September. As I also told my wife, "getting notifications to a Bluetooth-enabled device is a (mostly) solved problem. Getting the fitness aspects right is a much tougher problem". Pebble has shown evidence of figuring things out after a few iterations, so they can pull it off. Yes, Pebble's big selling point is price. But they also show their inexpensive price. My Pebble Time Steel is a scratch and scuff magnet. The bezel is huge. But you get what you pay for, and I still feel the Pebbles are a good value. Hell, the Fenix is a $600 device. Sure, it has sapphire glass and hardy exterior, alitimeter/compass/barometer, but still...$600. I can put the Fenix to good use and get my money out of it (big runner and hiker), but I'm guessing I'm not the mass market. Apple, though, I dunno. Sure, they've sold bazillions of Apple Watches, but I'm not sure where they go from there to justify the price. Ours is an Apple household, but the Watch was never on the radar for us. No GPS in the device was the deal-breaker for me (see: fitness features), because I'm not going to carry a phone while running. Other aspects didn't work for me, but if the Watch were just a bit more money than the Pebble I might have gotten one. But it's a lot more money. Again, maybe I'm outside their intended demographic, and not well-qualified to say what the future holds for Apple's device, but I just didn't see the value.