18 ms·

Microsoft uses malware tactics to foist Windows 10 on more PCs

82 points by avckp 10y ago

zxcvcxz 10y ago
Windows 10 slows down my whole PC and won't let me downgrade. I was forced to move to Linux or deal with constant lag from all forms of input. Can't believe I wasted my time putting up with the lag to fix my wifi so I could install updates.
TerryADavis 10y ago
You cannot reason with a nigger. I will be crowned king of the World and not have to argue with dunses. God says... donut's dorms cesarian's semipermeable Suez karakul whale blotching remembrance's cockatoo's blockheads coterie's steroid's mediaeval immunity's jut's breach clamp's heirloom microcomputer's tallies vocalization silkier denounce Rena wingtip's Sandra's doubtfully Guarani serve's choice unwrap
mikestew 10y ago
I'm seeing this story in several places, so I'm going to go with the smoke==fire assessment, but can anyone confirm? I hate to pull the [citation needed] card, but this sounds beneath even the Microsoft of the 90s. And if it's true? OMG, today's "open source, and Linux, and ponies!" Microsoft is demonstrating worse behavior than the "convicted abusive monopolist" Microsoft, IMO.
- plushpuffin 10y ago
  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675 This notification means your Windows 10 upgrade will occur at the time indicated, unless you select either Upgrade now or “Click here to change upgrade schedule or cancel scheduled upgrade”. If you click on OK or on the red “X”, you’re all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do.
  - mikestew 10y ago
    Wow, from their very own docs, huh? I was never a huge fan of some of Microsoft's patterns even when I worked there, but this is a new low in my eyes.
    - trowftd 10y ago
      Asking users to actually read something and not just blindly dismiss it is a new low?
      - plushpuffin 10y ago
        From the linked article: If you're determined to avoid Windows 10 you've simply closed that pop-up by clicking the little X in the top right corner, by now it's probably second nature. This week Microsoft took advantage of this by changing the pop-up so that clicking the X to close it implies your consent to upgrade, tricking even more people into installing Windows 10 against their wishes.
        trowftd 10y ago
        I doubt it's the same pop-up. This one specifically states: 'Based on your update settings you're scheduled to upgrade on ...'. Just closing the pop-up wouldn't change this fact. Can't really empathise with people complaining about this.
        plushpuffin 10y ago
        It isn't the same popup, because Microsoft has continually changed it over the past year. They have done everything they can to ignore and circumvent user preferences during this whole process. It started with OK and cancel, then changed to Upgrade Now and Upgrade Later, with the close button being the only way to decline. Now it is being pushed as an automatic upgrade with a deliberately small and unobtrusive cancel link instead of a prominent button. Also, if you are away from your PC, it will happen automatically. Look at their own UI guidelines: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn742499(v=vs.85).aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn7... Dialog boxes always have a Close button. Don't disable the Close button. Having a Close button helps users stay in control by allowing them to close windows they don't want. The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK. Also, read this: http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/the-gwx-control-panel-faq-frequently.html http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/the-gwx-control-pan... It does seem that, on more than a few occasions, Microsoft has gone out of its way to bypass workarounds people have found that disable the GWX app, from resetting registry settings to re-releasing KBs that were explicitly declined and hidden by users.
- kstenerud 10y ago
  I just witnessed it happen on my father's PC last week. It's even worse than what they're reporting here. Basically, it brought up a window with a countdown saying that an "update" (won't say what) is scheduled to run in 4 hours. I had the option of changing the update to happen tomorrow, the day after, or the day after that. No close gadget. No opt-out. No alternative. Killing the window via task manager just caused it to relaunch. Cutting the power just made the update run when it restarted. I'd already backed everything up, so I wiped and reinstalled windows 7, and then used Never10 to hopefully stop that shit in future.
  - heywire 10y ago
    Honest question, why not just run Windows 10? I find that on older hardware it runs better than Windows 7.
    - Nadya 10y ago
      I run countless software that is not compatible for some reason or another with Windows 10 and would need to be ran within a VM. In fact, I'd be using Windows 10 to emulate Windows 7 literally 100% of the time. So why not stick with 7 rather than suffer a performance loss from running it within a VM?
      - heywire 10y ago
        That is a perfectly valid reason. Some people I've found are just resistant to change, and as such, put everyone else at more risk by using an older OS (thinking more XP than 7 here). Can you share the names of the software you use that doesn't work on Windows 10? I'm really just curious. The product I work on in my day job is a Windows application that started its life as a DOS application and uses a graphics library that was designed around Windows 3.1. We really didn't have do to anything to get it to run on Windows 10. In fact, the only real problems we had were due to us still using some 16-bit compiled applications, and those wouldn't run on the 64-bit version of Windows 10 we had.
        10y ago
- uremog 10y ago
  I had removed all the Win10 upgrade files and registry keys, etc from my box at one point, yet somehow - probably during an update - the files have come back. It is now showing me that pop-up again.
- zxcvcxz 10y ago
  Yeah I had to fix my fathers friends computer because his wifi didn't work after the upgrade (just needed to plug into ethernet and download the wifi driver). He specifically said he closed the update window. Not only is this evil but it's really unprofessional and not what I expect from a company like Microsoft. Forcing the update is one thing, but breaking thousands of machines?? And how could they really not see what was going to happen? What is happening up at MS HQ? And all the guy does is look at porn and browse facebook, literally that's all he does with his laptop, he would be better off with Linux. I'm glad I don't have to deal with Windows anymore. Once you switch to Linux/Unix and experience a simple OS that stays the hell out of the way using Windows just feels like a chore. Why can't Microsoft make Windows good?
- dimino 10y ago
  Microsoft is trying to unify as many devices as possible, in an effort to secure Windows around the world. Too many people are running insecure versions of Windows, and frankly I'd rather break them (the small percentage that they are) than have that many botnets out there, sending spam, breaking bitcoin consensus, and all kinds of other nefarious things.
  - 0x0 10y ago
    What's insecure about Windows 7? It still receives security updates? In 5 years time, will you consider a fully patched Windows 10 to be an "insecure version of Windows" too? Why not? Did you consider Windows 7 insecure when it was first released?
    - dimino 10y ago
      This is a shortsighted way of thinking. The goal is to move beyond "releases", and to a continuously upgrading OS, like OS X. Sure, OS X has new releases, but adoption rate is high, and Apple is quick to cut support for legacy versions. Microsoft is working towards that. The visceral reaction towards Microsoft for trying this is just a general "I want to be in control for the sake of being in control" reaction that carries no legitimate value.
      - wolfgke 10y ago
        > The visceral reaction towards Microsoft for trying this is just a general "I want to be in control for the sake of being in control" reaction that carries no legitimate value. Since Windows 10 brings built-in surveillance functions to the table and will be the first version to support the dubious Intel SGX (Software Guard Extensions), it is much better to be safe than sorry or in your words: better to be in control for the sake of being in control than in no control.
        dimino 10y ago
        Windows 10 doesn't have built-in "surveillance functions". Your cell phone is much worse, from a "surveillance functions" point of view. It's got GPS in it, they know where you are all the time!!! Give me a break...
- buckbova 10y ago
  Happened to my folks. I had to fix the network issues they had connecting from win10 to win7. Took all day. Just didn't want to work. I set the other machines to never upgrade using this tool: https://www.grc.com/never10.htm https://www.grc.com/never10.htm Probably the same as the reg hack others post about.
- tajen 10y ago
  I can't assess for truth, but I reckon the sneaky upgrade of Win10 users (those who gave refused until now) is becoming a running joke on 9Gag. And popularity is important when the European commission sets the fines. Just saying.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
benbenolson 10y ago
Use Linux. Problem solved. Of course, if you have special needs (games, proprietary Windows-only software, etc.), you might have to run Windows. My advice would be to simply use an Enterprise version of Windows 7, which doesn't "upgrade" you automatically, and work on moving away from any Microsoft platforms as quickly as possible.
- EpicEng 10y ago
  >problem solved And perhaps many new problems introduced (as you point out), so... no, not really.
  - zxcvcxz 10y ago
    Linux is a viable option for many people. A good portion of people literally only use a web browser. Just saw a whole school switch to ChromeOS.
  - LnxPrgr3 10y ago
    Recently had a project with a C++-on-Linux deliverable. I developed on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, the most recent LTS at the time. Someone else tested on 16.04 LTS, which came out between me finishing development and him testing. Code compiled and failed to link until we built libcurlpp from source. In short, Ubuntu's been shipping a broken libcurlpp for something like a year. Further research tells me that's not the only package affected, and GCC 5 has generally made life entertaining. I'm also running 16.04 on a Raspberry Pi, and oh boy is that fun! An even less tested architecture! * Chromium segfaults on startup, and appears to have been doing so for about a year. Ubuntu continues to package completely broken updates occasionally. * Most audio from Firefox goes through what I've been calling the noisy Satan filter. * Initially, all programs segfaulted in ld.so when running in GDB. Currently, it spits out a couple errors and continues. * nm-applet reliably segfaults a few minutes after starting. * For some unknown reason, wlan0 has 7 global IPv6 addresses and counting. But at least it doesn't update without asking. I suppose there's that! Edit: Not that I think what Microsoft is doing is OK. Just think "just use Linux" often causes more problems than it solves, especially for people who just want Word and Facebook to work.
ensiferum 10y ago
I'm just waiting for the day when Microsoft moves on to subscription based service. Basically I'm assuming that they want their win10 user base high enough and then one day they say "we changed our licensing policy to subscription based" and then everyone has no choice but to pay $20 or whatever every month or be locked out from their machines. There's probably some small print in the win10 EULA that conveniently allows them to move onto this model under the ruse of "rolling releases"
- B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
  Probably just for the business users. "Less evil than Oracle! And cheaper!" Heady days.
- spriggan3 10y ago
  > I'm just waiting for the day when Microsoft moves on to subscription based service. You're probably right, it's probably the future of Windows. Adobe moved to a subscription based service, users hated it yet numbers don't lie, Adobe made tons of money with that move.
- daveguy 10y ago
  I expect they won't do that until Win10 is an established rolling release OS. I also expect they will wait until after Windows 7 is no longer supported (2020) and Win10 has over 50% share. Also, I bet it will be rolled into Office365 subscription. People who have Office365 get recommended and security updates for Win10 for FREE! Such a good deal! You get office, and 1TB online storage for just $10/month! If they can convert 50% of Win10 users (.625/1.25 billion) to subscription that's $6.25 billion / month or $75 billion / year. Their yearly revenue for 2015 was $93.6 billion. With a billion people (their stated goal for Win10) on a subscription model for $12/mo that is +50% yearly revenue -- enormous growth for such a large company. I do not doubt that is the end goal. EDIT: "current count" of 1.25 billion windows machines was an estimate by business insider from 2011.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    I understand the reason the upgrade is free is to rather move to an ad supported service.
8rian 10y ago
Left to their own devices, people would never upgrade. This is a security risk for MS. (Win 8 support ends January 2018). Chrome was championed for auto updating, and now all browsers do the same. Web apps can auto update whenever they want. Mobile apps auto update. Why shouldn't operating systems?
- mistermann 10y ago
  One reason I can think of, and the reason I'm staying on Win7 as long as possible - Windows 10 installs updates and reboots (killing all open windows, unsaved documents, browser tabs, etc) without asking for permission to do so. This outrages me.
  - ourmandave 10y ago
    I took screen shots with my phone while the upgrade ran so I can participate in the class action lawsuit that will never happen. They're a bit blurry because I was using the outrage filter. I suppose the settlement would be a free one-month trial of MS cloud services. And at the end of the month they'd auto upgrade you to the highest cost tier.
- _RPM 10y ago
  I'm an Android user, and I have disabled auto updating, so I'm not sure my apps auto update.
  - poopsintub 10y ago
    Sure they can, but as you stated, you turned off the default setting to auto-update.
- fluxsauce 10y ago
  There's a difference between security and stability updates and major version changes. I have no compelling reason to upgrade my Windows 7 machine to Windows 10; 7 performs all the tasks I need it to. I do not trust the privacy changes in Windows 10, which is more reason for me not to upgrade. I've disabled the Windows 10 upgrade path, but otherwise keep it up-to-date on all patches. What do I do when Windows 7 support ends? I'll cross that bridge when I get to it... but that bridge won't be to Windows 10.
pygy_ 10y ago
My in-law's laptop "upgraded to Win 10 all by itself" last week (that's how they described it), and I can only suppose that one of them closed the nagging pop up, unknowingly triggering the update. After rebooting, neither the keyboard nor the trackpad would work. I had a spare USB keyboard (no mouse), and I managed to delete the faulty drivers, which were replaced on reboot by valid ones (the bad drivers were reported as 'up to date', so updating wouldn't do it). Disabling all the spyware features with only a keyboard during the post-install setup wasn't fun. Thankfully, the device manager is still his old Win95 self, and I could easily navigate through it even though I haven't owned a Windows machine since XP. I learned after the fact that refusing the User Agreement would revert to the previous version of the OS. I wish I had known that before finalizing the impromptu upgrade.
serge2k 10y ago
For probably the first time I understand why forum/reddit mods turn to those "megathreads" Do we need a new story about this every day. ugh.
- Nullabillity 10y ago
  Yes, until Microsoft finally ends this madness?
rhizome 10y ago
This is essentially an entire feature of the updater. Imagine the meetings and project management involved.
- zxcvcxz 10y ago
  There are MS employees right here on HN, I wish some of them would chime in with their thoughts on this whole debacle. I imagine most of the employees were kept in the dark about this too, as the nature of MS/proprietary software is secretive and sometimes considered abusive to the employee. Likely they've signed non-disclosure agreements and could lose their jobs for giving an honest assessment of what they think about their employer.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    Yeah, I know that worker bees are always the last to know the big picture, but someone somewhere had to make the "X" violate Demeter. Now, there's an argument to be made that the close button is only for the notification that something is going to happen, but come on. Obviously they didn't focus group this.
spriggan3 10y ago
The guys at MSFT just don't give a fuck... I wonder what are their plans with W10 and the next versions. It seems it is mandatory for them that everybody moves to W10, the question is why ? what is MSFT strategy for the next 5/10 years when it comes to Windows ? A closed system like the Xbox ?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- niftich 10y ago
  To get Microsoft-owned media content in front of more eyeballs. This is what Google (indirectly) did with Android, and what Yahoo wish it could do to shore up its declining share of consumers of its content.
rfurlan 10y ago
A simple guide for life: (1) Gather information (e.g. read the screen) (2) Think about it (3) Act accordingly
- 5ilv3r 10y ago
  We live in an age of information overload.
Yetanfou 10y ago
I just restored one of my neighbour's computers to life after it 'suddenly stopped working, it only shows a black screen with a mouse pointer'. The last thing the thing - which runs Windows 7 - had done was try to install KB3035583, the 'get Windows 10 now or die trying' version. It died. After restoring Windows' messed-up intestines the machine booted up again. I'd removed all traces of KB3035583 in the hope that this neighbour - a farmer's wife in her 60s - would not be bothered again, nor tricked into 'upgrading'. Being the wise person I am I decided to keep the machine in quarantine for another day, just to make sure Microsoft would not come up with yet another way to foist this miscarriage of an operating system onto hapless users' machines. And, lo and behold, the next day I was greeted by yet another 'update', also summarily hidden and scrubbed, but still... I do these people a favour in helping them with technical stuff, but I don't want to become a full-time guardian. If this keeps up I'll just put some form of Linux on the thing and be done with it, all she uses it for is some light web browsing and mail-related stuff anyway. To paraphrase a well-known quote, the harder Microsoft pushes, the more users will slip through their fingers and move to better pasture. That they don't realise this is something of a mystery to me.
- x1798DE 10y ago
  > If this keeps up I'll just put some form of Linux on the thing and be done with it, all she uses it for is some light web browsing and mail-related stuff anyway. Why wait?
- unprepare 10y ago
  gwx control panel will disable all the upgrade crap. I've used it on a few machines with good results. http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
thedudemabry 10y ago
I thought I was the only one! My gaming PC hooked up to our living room TV has nagged about the upgrade for months, and I dutifully closed the popup window each time I saw it. About two weeks ago, I turned on the TV to find a new login screen and noticed that my remote keyboard and mouse daemon had stopped. All in all, Win10 has been just fine, but I had no idea how it managed to install itself without my direct approval.
ksk 10y ago
Can anything damage large companies' reputation irreversibly these days? Whether is Microsoft forcing "upgrades" on PCs or Apple forcing iOS updates with their constant popups (which BTW you can avoid by using a proxy file) or their planned OSX obsolescence. And Google being a web company is free to muck up the UI, tie unrelated products together or discontinue services without any recourse since they're not client applications. Most large software companies' practices seem abusive to me. "We take security seriously" - after they've just been hacked or "We take privacy very seriously" - after they've just handed over user data for some ad cash, etc.
avckp 10y ago
The side effects: "I live in the Central African bush. We pay for slow satellite internet (per MB d/l). Just ONE of our computers has secretly d/l'ed 6GB for Windows 10. We track & coordinate anti-poaching rangers in the field with these PC's + GPS. F* You Microsoft!" https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i...

82 points by avckp 10y ago

Windows 10 slows down my whole PC and won't let me downgrade. I was forced to move to Linux or deal with constant lag from all forms of input. Can't believe I wasted my time putting up with the lag to fix my wifi so I could install updates.

TerryADavis 10y ago

You cannot reason with a nigger. I will be crowned king of the World and not have to argue with dunses. God says... donut's dorms cesarian's semipermeable Suez karakul whale blotching remembrance's cockatoo's blockheads coterie's steroid's mediaeval immunity's jut's breach clamp's heirloom microcomputer's tallies vocalization silkier denounce Rena wingtip's Sandra's doubtfully Guarani serve's choice unwrap

mikestew 10y ago

I'm seeing this story in several places, so I'm going to go with the smoke==fire assessment, but can anyone confirm? I hate to pull the [citation needed] card, but this sounds beneath even the Microsoft of the 90s. And if it's true? OMG, today's "open source, and Linux, and ponies!" Microsoft is demonstrating worse behavior than the "convicted abusive monopolist" Microsoft, IMO.

plushpuffin 10y ago
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675 This notification means your Windows 10 upgrade will occur at the time indicated, unless you select either Upgrade now or “Click here to change upgrade schedule or cancel scheduled upgrade”. If you click on OK or on the red “X”, you’re all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do.
- mikestew 10y ago
  Wow, from their very own docs, huh? I was never a huge fan of some of Microsoft's patterns even when I worked there, but this is a new low in my eyes.
  - trowftd 10y ago
    Asking users to actually read something and not just blindly dismiss it is a new low?
    - plushpuffin 10y ago
      From the linked article: If you're determined to avoid Windows 10 you've simply closed that pop-up by clicking the little X in the top right corner, by now it's probably second nature. This week Microsoft took advantage of this by changing the pop-up so that clicking the X to close it implies your consent to upgrade, tricking even more people into installing Windows 10 against their wishes.
      - trowftd 10y ago
        I doubt it's the same pop-up. This one specifically states: 'Based on your update settings you're scheduled to upgrade on ...'. Just closing the pop-up wouldn't change this fact. Can't really empathise with people complaining about this.
        plushpuffin 10y ago
        It isn't the same popup, because Microsoft has continually changed it over the past year. They have done everything they can to ignore and circumvent user preferences during this whole process. It started with OK and cancel, then changed to Upgrade Now and Upgrade Later, with the close button being the only way to decline. Now it is being pushed as an automatic upgrade with a deliberately small and unobtrusive cancel link instead of a prominent button. Also, if you are away from your PC, it will happen automatically. Look at their own UI guidelines: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn742499(v=vs.85).aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn7... Dialog boxes always have a Close button. Don't disable the Close button. Having a Close button helps users stay in control by allowing them to close windows they don't want. The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK. Also, read this: http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/the-gwx-control-panel-faq-frequently.html http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/the-gwx-control-pan... It does seem that, on more than a few occasions, Microsoft has gone out of its way to bypass workarounds people have found that disable the GWX app, from resetting registry settings to re-releasing KBs that were explicitly declined and hidden by users.
kstenerud 10y ago
I just witnessed it happen on my father's PC last week. It's even worse than what they're reporting here. Basically, it brought up a window with a countdown saying that an "update" (won't say what) is scheduled to run in 4 hours. I had the option of changing the update to happen tomorrow, the day after, or the day after that. No close gadget. No opt-out. No alternative. Killing the window via task manager just caused it to relaunch. Cutting the power just made the update run when it restarted. I'd already backed everything up, so I wiped and reinstalled windows 7, and then used Never10 to hopefully stop that shit in future.
- heywire 10y ago
  Honest question, why not just run Windows 10? I find that on older hardware it runs better than Windows 7.
  - Nadya 10y ago
    I run countless software that is not compatible for some reason or another with Windows 10 and would need to be ran within a VM. In fact, I'd be using Windows 10 to emulate Windows 7 literally 100% of the time. So why not stick with 7 rather than suffer a performance loss from running it within a VM?
    - heywire 10y ago
      That is a perfectly valid reason. Some people I've found are just resistant to change, and as such, put everyone else at more risk by using an older OS (thinking more XP than 7 here). Can you share the names of the software you use that doesn't work on Windows 10? I'm really just curious. The product I work on in my day job is a Windows application that started its life as a DOS application and uses a graphics library that was designed around Windows 3.1. We really didn't have do to anything to get it to run on Windows 10. In fact, the only real problems we had were due to us still using some 16-bit compiled applications, and those wouldn't run on the 64-bit version of Windows 10 we had.
      - 10y ago
uremog 10y ago
I had removed all the Win10 upgrade files and registry keys, etc from my box at one point, yet somehow - probably during an update - the files have come back. It is now showing me that pop-up again.
zxcvcxz 10y ago
Yeah I had to fix my fathers friends computer because his wifi didn't work after the upgrade (just needed to plug into ethernet and download the wifi driver). He specifically said he closed the update window. Not only is this evil but it's really unprofessional and not what I expect from a company like Microsoft. Forcing the update is one thing, but breaking thousands of machines?? And how could they really not see what was going to happen? What is happening up at MS HQ? And all the guy does is look at porn and browse facebook, literally that's all he does with his laptop, he would be better off with Linux. I'm glad I don't have to deal with Windows anymore. Once you switch to Linux/Unix and experience a simple OS that stays the hell out of the way using Windows just feels like a chore. Why can't Microsoft make Windows good?
dimino 10y ago
Microsoft is trying to unify as many devices as possible, in an effort to secure Windows around the world. Too many people are running insecure versions of Windows, and frankly I'd rather break them (the small percentage that they are) than have that many botnets out there, sending spam, breaking bitcoin consensus, and all kinds of other nefarious things.
- 0x0 10y ago
  What's insecure about Windows 7? It still receives security updates? In 5 years time, will you consider a fully patched Windows 10 to be an "insecure version of Windows" too? Why not? Did you consider Windows 7 insecure when it was first released?
  - dimino 10y ago
    This is a shortsighted way of thinking. The goal is to move beyond "releases", and to a continuously upgrading OS, like OS X. Sure, OS X has new releases, but adoption rate is high, and Apple is quick to cut support for legacy versions. Microsoft is working towards that. The visceral reaction towards Microsoft for trying this is just a general "I want to be in control for the sake of being in control" reaction that carries no legitimate value.
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      > The visceral reaction towards Microsoft for trying this is just a general "I want to be in control for the sake of being in control" reaction that carries no legitimate value. Since Windows 10 brings built-in surveillance functions to the table and will be the first version to support the dubious Intel SGX (Software Guard Extensions), it is much better to be safe than sorry or in your words: better to be in control for the sake of being in control than in no control.
      - dimino 10y ago
        Windows 10 doesn't have built-in "surveillance functions". Your cell phone is much worse, from a "surveillance functions" point of view. It's got GPS in it, they know where you are all the time!!! Give me a break...
buckbova 10y ago
Happened to my folks. I had to fix the network issues they had connecting from win10 to win7. Took all day. Just didn't want to work. I set the other machines to never upgrade using this tool: https://www.grc.com/never10.htm https://www.grc.com/never10.htm Probably the same as the reg hack others post about.
tajen 10y ago
I can't assess for truth, but I reckon the sneaky upgrade of Win10 users (those who gave refused until now) is becoming a running joke on 9Gag. And popularity is important when the European commission sets the fines. Just saying.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

benbenolson 10y ago

Use Linux. Problem solved. Of course, if you have special needs (games, proprietary Windows-only software, etc.), you might have to run Windows. My advice would be to simply use an Enterprise version of Windows 7, which doesn't "upgrade" you automatically, and work on moving away from any Microsoft platforms as quickly as possible.

EpicEng 10y ago
>problem solved And perhaps many new problems introduced (as you point out), so... no, not really.
- zxcvcxz 10y ago
  Linux is a viable option for many people. A good portion of people literally only use a web browser. Just saw a whole school switch to ChromeOS.
- LnxPrgr3 10y ago
  Recently had a project with a C++-on-Linux deliverable. I developed on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, the most recent LTS at the time. Someone else tested on 16.04 LTS, which came out between me finishing development and him testing. Code compiled and failed to link until we built libcurlpp from source. In short, Ubuntu's been shipping a broken libcurlpp for something like a year. Further research tells me that's not the only package affected, and GCC 5 has generally made life entertaining. I'm also running 16.04 on a Raspberry Pi, and oh boy is that fun! An even less tested architecture! * Chromium segfaults on startup, and appears to have been doing so for about a year. Ubuntu continues to package completely broken updates occasionally. * Most audio from Firefox goes through what I've been calling the noisy Satan filter. * Initially, all programs segfaulted in ld.so when running in GDB. Currently, it spits out a couple errors and continues. * nm-applet reliably segfaults a few minutes after starting. * For some unknown reason, wlan0 has 7 global IPv6 addresses and counting. But at least it doesn't update without asking. I suppose there's that! Edit: Not that I think what Microsoft is doing is OK. Just think "just use Linux" often causes more problems than it solves, especially for people who just want Word and Facebook to work.

ensiferum 10y ago

I'm just waiting for the day when Microsoft moves on to subscription based service. Basically I'm assuming that they want their win10 user base high enough and then one day they say "we changed our licensing policy to subscription based" and then everyone has no choice but to pay $20 or whatever every month or be locked out from their machines. There's probably some small print in the win10 EULA that conveniently allows them to move onto this model under the ruse of "rolling releases"

B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
Probably just for the business users. "Less evil than Oracle! And cheaper!" Heady days.
spriggan3 10y ago
> I'm just waiting for the day when Microsoft moves on to subscription based service. You're probably right, it's probably the future of Windows. Adobe moved to a subscription based service, users hated it yet numbers don't lie, Adobe made tons of money with that move.
daveguy 10y ago
I expect they won't do that until Win10 is an established rolling release OS. I also expect they will wait until after Windows 7 is no longer supported (2020) and Win10 has over 50% share. Also, I bet it will be rolled into Office365 subscription. People who have Office365 get recommended and security updates for Win10 for FREE! Such a good deal! You get office, and 1TB online storage for just $10/month! If they can convert 50% of Win10 users (.625/1.25 billion) to subscription that's $6.25 billion / month or $75 billion / year. Their yearly revenue for 2015 was $93.6 billion. With a billion people (their stated goal for Win10) on a subscription model for $12/mo that is +50% yearly revenue -- enormous growth for such a large company. I do not doubt that is the end goal. EDIT: "current count" of 1.25 billion windows machines was an estimate by business insider from 2011.
- cm2187 10y ago
  I understand the reason the upgrade is free is to rather move to an ad supported service.

8rian 10y ago

Left to their own devices, people would never upgrade. This is a security risk for MS. (Win 8 support ends January 2018). Chrome was championed for auto updating, and now all browsers do the same. Web apps can auto update whenever they want. Mobile apps auto update. Why shouldn't operating systems?

mistermann 10y ago
One reason I can think of, and the reason I'm staying on Win7 as long as possible - Windows 10 installs updates and reboots (killing all open windows, unsaved documents, browser tabs, etc) without asking for permission to do so. This outrages me.
- ourmandave 10y ago
  I took screen shots with my phone while the upgrade ran so I can participate in the class action lawsuit that will never happen. They're a bit blurry because I was using the outrage filter. I suppose the settlement would be a free one-month trial of MS cloud services. And at the end of the month they'd auto upgrade you to the highest cost tier.
_RPM 10y ago
I'm an Android user, and I have disabled auto updating, so I'm not sure my apps auto update.
- poopsintub 10y ago
  Sure they can, but as you stated, you turned off the default setting to auto-update.
fluxsauce 10y ago
There's a difference between security and stability updates and major version changes. I have no compelling reason to upgrade my Windows 7 machine to Windows 10; 7 performs all the tasks I need it to. I do not trust the privacy changes in Windows 10, which is more reason for me not to upgrade. I've disabled the Windows 10 upgrade path, but otherwise keep it up-to-date on all patches. What do I do when Windows 7 support ends? I'll cross that bridge when I get to it... but that bridge won't be to Windows 10.

pygy_ 10y ago

My in-law's laptop "upgraded to Win 10 all by itself" last week (that's how they described it), and I can only suppose that one of them closed the nagging pop up, unknowingly triggering the update. After rebooting, neither the keyboard nor the trackpad would work. I had a spare USB keyboard (no mouse), and I managed to delete the faulty drivers, which were replaced on reboot by valid ones (the bad drivers were reported as 'up to date', so updating wouldn't do it). Disabling all the spyware features with only a keyboard during the post-install setup wasn't fun. Thankfully, the device manager is still his old Win95 self, and I could easily navigate through it even though I haven't owned a Windows machine since XP. I learned after the fact that refusing the User Agreement would revert to the previous version of the OS. I wish I had known that before finalizing the impromptu upgrade.

serge2k 10y ago

For probably the first time I understand why forum/reddit mods turn to those "megathreads" Do we need a new story about this every day. ugh.

Nullabillity 10y ago
Yes, until Microsoft finally ends this madness?

rhizome 10y ago

This is essentially an entire feature of the updater. Imagine the meetings and project management involved.

zxcvcxz 10y ago
There are MS employees right here on HN, I wish some of them would chime in with their thoughts on this whole debacle. I imagine most of the employees were kept in the dark about this too, as the nature of MS/proprietary software is secretive and sometimes considered abusive to the employee. Likely they've signed non-disclosure agreements and could lose their jobs for giving an honest assessment of what they think about their employer.
- rhizome 10y ago
  Yeah, I know that worker bees are always the last to know the big picture, but someone somewhere had to make the "X" violate Demeter. Now, there's an argument to be made that the close button is only for the notification that something is going to happen, but come on. Obviously they didn't focus group this.

spriggan3 10y ago

The guys at MSFT just don't give a fuck... I wonder what are their plans with W10 and the next versions. It seems it is mandatory for them that everybody moves to W10, the question is why ? what is MSFT strategy for the next 5/10 years when it comes to Windows ? A closed system like the Xbox ?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
niftich 10y ago
To get Microsoft-owned media content in front of more eyeballs. This is what Google (indirectly) did with Android, and what Yahoo wish it could do to shore up its declining share of consumers of its content.

rfurlan 10y ago

A simple guide for life: (1) Gather information (e.g. read the screen) (2) Think about it (3) Act accordingly

5ilv3r 10y ago
We live in an age of information overload.

Yetanfou 10y ago

I just restored one of my neighbour's computers to life after it 'suddenly stopped working, it only shows a black screen with a mouse pointer'. The last thing the thing - which runs Windows 7 - had done was try to install KB3035583, the 'get Windows 10 now or die trying' version. It died. After restoring Windows' messed-up intestines the machine booted up again. I'd removed all traces of KB3035583 in the hope that this neighbour - a farmer's wife in her 60s - would not be bothered again, nor tricked into 'upgrading'. Being the wise person I am I decided to keep the machine in quarantine for another day, just to make sure Microsoft would not come up with yet another way to foist this miscarriage of an operating system onto hapless users' machines. And, lo and behold, the next day I was greeted by yet another 'update', also summarily hidden and scrubbed, but still... I do these people a favour in helping them with technical stuff, but I don't want to become a full-time guardian. If this keeps up I'll just put some form of Linux on the thing and be done with it, all she uses it for is some light web browsing and mail-related stuff anyway. To paraphrase a well-known quote, the harder Microsoft pushes, the more users will slip through their fingers and move to better pasture. That they don't realise this is something of a mystery to me.

x1798DE 10y ago
> If this keeps up I'll just put some form of Linux on the thing and be done with it, all she uses it for is some light web browsing and mail-related stuff anyway. Why wait?
unprepare 10y ago
gwx control panel will disable all the upgrade crap. I've used it on a few machines with good results. http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

thedudemabry 10y ago

I thought I was the only one! My gaming PC hooked up to our living room TV has nagged about the upgrade for months, and I dutifully closed the popup window each time I saw it. About two weeks ago, I turned on the TV to find a new login screen and noticed that my remote keyboard and mouse daemon had stopped. All in all, Win10 has been just fine, but I had no idea how it managed to install itself without my direct approval.

ksk 10y ago

Can anything damage large companies' reputation irreversibly these days? Whether is Microsoft forcing "upgrades" on PCs or Apple forcing iOS updates with their constant popups (which BTW you can avoid by using a proxy file) or their planned OSX obsolescence. And Google being a web company is free to muck up the UI, tie unrelated products together or discontinue services without any recourse since they're not client applications. Most large software companies' practices seem abusive to me. "We take security seriously" - after they've just been hacked or "We take privacy very seriously" - after they've just handed over user data for some ad cash, etc.

avckp 10y ago

The side effects: "I live in the Central African bush. We pay for slow satellite internet (per MB d/l). Just ONE of our computers has secretly d/l'ed 6GB for Windows 10. We track & coordinate anti-poaching rangers in the field with these PC's + GPS. F* You Microsoft!" https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i...