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Average city driving speed for LA is 26.8 MPH [0], which means she's driving around 750 miles per week. She leased a 2015 Honda Civic, which has a rated fuel e

Average city driving speed for LA is 26.8 MPH [0], which means she's driving around 750 miles per week. She leased a 2015 Honda Civic, which has a rated fuel economy of 31 MPG. Assuming she gets the rated gas mileage from her civic, she's buying 24 gallons of gasoline per week for 2.39 [1] per, costing her $57. AAA gives an estimated 5.51 cents per mile for maintenance and tires [2], costing her $41. So, take home pay after expenses is $604 - $160 - $57 - $41 = $346, or $12.3/hr. IANAA, so I don't know which of these expenses qualify for deductions when she files. But an annual pay (after expenses) of $17,992 doesn't leave much wiggle room for paying for an accountant, assuming Uber indentured servitude is her only income generating activity. 0. http://infinitemonkeycorps.net/projects/cityspeed/ http://infinitemonkeycorps.net/projects/cityspeed/ 1. http://www.losangelesgasprices.com/ http://www.losangelesgasprices.com/ 2. http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2016-YDC-Brochure.pdf http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2016-YDC-...

Bartweiss 10y ago
This is mostly a good assessment, but the maintenance cost should be reduced - one part of Uber's lending program is covered routine maintenance. Gas at least should be deductible, I don't know whether the car payments can be counted in whole or in part. The overall point is well taken, though. There are several hits to real income for Uber drivers that aren't shared by other types of low-wage worker, and while "set your own hours" offers more upside than a normal part-time job, it's limited by how many high-demand hours there are in a week. Rather than extra overtime pay, I imagine hours past her current 28 would give steadily diminishing returns.
- warfangle 10y ago
  I don't think it matters if the car payments can be counted or not. But, according to [0] (I'm not sure how accurate/reputable it is; again, IANAA), the deductible portion of $60452=$31,408 is only $2,218.90. Gas at $5752=$2,964 already extends past that cap. Assuming her income is taxed before the lease payments are made, and hits her full deductible, she's paying total taxes of $4,437.81 So, net after-tax, after-expense income - I didn't realize that about routine maintenance - is $604-$160-($57 - ($2,218.90/52)) - ($4,437.81/52) = $344 / wk, or $13/hr. Compared to working multiple inflexibly-houred minimum wage jobs, it's definitely better. But in no way is it lucrative, or even lower middle class.
  - pc86 10y ago
    In most of the country $13/hr is indeed lower middle class.
    - evilduck 10y ago
      In places where $13/hr is a viable lower middle class wage, Uber is also generally not available as a job.
    - untog 10y ago
      We are specifically talking about Seattle here, though. All the other variables would also be different in different parts of the country.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > We are specifically talking about Seattle here, though. The newspaper is from Seattle, but the driver featured in the article whose numbers were used for the calculations in this thread was actually in Los Angeles.
        untog 10y ago
        Ah, I stand corrected! But either way, things like car payments, insurance vary widely by geography, so it doesn't seem like applying this particular situation nationwide would prove much.
- rayiner 10y ago
  Tax deductibility doesn't matter much when you're making under $20k because your marginal rate is so low.
calvinbhai 10y ago
wow, thats quite a thorough calculation of expenses. But I'd assume a leased car probably has less maintanence costs, but certainly added costs for gas. I'm not sure if you factored in commercial insurance for a leased vehicle which will be more expensive per month, compared to personal auto insurance for own car. Factoring the commercial/rideshare auto insurance in, will leave little wiggle room.
tyingq 10y ago
Great breakdown. Again, though, that's $12.30/hr as 1099 income, subject to self employment taxes,...and no sick days, paid holidays, vacation, unemployment coverage, insurance, etc.
- alphast0rm 10y ago
  > ...and no sick days, paid holidays, vacation That's not really true - one of the big advantages of driving for Uber is you set your own hours, so you can take time off whenever you would like.
  - chinathrow 10y ago
    No, that would be "unpaid time off".
  - devindotcom 10y ago
    big difference between paid time off and just not working
    - aianus 10y ago
      There is no real difference between the two. If you were a robot working effectively 365 days a year you would be able to command a proportionally higher salary/wage. "Paid" time off is as much of a lie as "employer" payroll taxes.
      - lawpoop 10y ago
        Not in a minimum wage scenario.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > There is no real difference between the two. There is when comparing hourly compensation in a role that provides no paid time off with hourly compensation in role that provides paid time off. For instance, a $10/hr that accrues 1 hour of paid sick leave for every 30 hours of work (the minimum for an accrual plan meeting California's paid sick leave mandate) is better paid than a $10/hr job that does not (the actual value is up to $10.33/hr, though restrictions on the use of paid sick leave may make it somewhat less but always greater than $10/hr.) > "Paid" time off is as much of a lie as "employer" payroll taxes. Employer-share payroll taxes are not a lie, either; they are both real taxes, and they really do not come out of your gross pay (they may reduce the gross pay the employer is willing to offer, but that doesn't make them "a lie", it just means they have other effects.) The distinction probably was most critically important to people who had employment contracts in place that straddled the time when payroll taxes were first implemented, since the employee share was the part that the employee's reimbursement was reduced below the status quo ante, whereas the employer share was not. Like paid time off, its important to keep the difference in mind when comparing employment that has employer-share payroll taxes (generally, W-2 employment) with employment that does not but instead pays the equivalent of both shares as self-employment taxes (1099), since the nominal pay of the two kinds of employments is not directly comparable without adjusting for the differences.
dragonwriter 10y ago
You'd also need to subtract half of the self-employment taxes (equivalent to the employer share of payroll taxes) to get an employee-wage-equivalent figure. Assuming that the $12.3/hr is the net before SE taxes, SE taxes are about $1.74/hr and the employer-share-equivalent is $0.87/hr, leaving a wage-equivalent of $10.43/hr. Which is just barely above California's minimum wage ($10.00) today, and not (as suggested upthread) better than the most generous minimum wage proposals.

Bartweiss 10y ago

This is mostly a good assessment, but the maintenance cost should be reduced - one part of Uber's lending program is covered routine maintenance. Gas at least should be deductible, I don't know whether the car payments can be counted in whole or in part. The overall point is well taken, though. There are several hits to real income for Uber drivers that aren't shared by other types of low-wage worker, and while "set your own hours" offers more upside than a normal part-time job, it's limited by how many high-demand hours there are in a week. Rather than extra overtime pay, I imagine hours past her current 28 would give steadily diminishing returns.

warfangle 10y ago
I don't think it matters if the car payments can be counted or not. But, according to [0] (I'm not sure how accurate/reputable it is; again, IANAA), the deductible portion of $60452=$31,408 is only $2,218.90. Gas at $5752=$2,964 already extends past that cap. Assuming her income is taxed before the lease payments are made, and hits her full deductible, she's paying total taxes of $4,437.81 So, net after-tax, after-expense income - I didn't realize that about routine maintenance - is $604-$160-($57 - ($2,218.90/52)) - ($4,437.81/52) = $344 / wk, or $13/hr. Compared to working multiple inflexibly-houred minimum wage jobs, it's definitely better. But in no way is it lucrative, or even lower middle class.
- pc86 10y ago
  In most of the country $13/hr is indeed lower middle class.
  - evilduck 10y ago
    In places where $13/hr is a viable lower middle class wage, Uber is also generally not available as a job.
  - untog 10y ago
    We are specifically talking about Seattle here, though. All the other variables would also be different in different parts of the country.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > We are specifically talking about Seattle here, though. The newspaper is from Seattle, but the driver featured in the article whose numbers were used for the calculations in this thread was actually in Los Angeles.
      - untog 10y ago
        Ah, I stand corrected! But either way, things like car payments, insurance vary widely by geography, so it doesn't seem like applying this particular situation nationwide would prove much.
rayiner 10y ago
Tax deductibility doesn't matter much when you're making under $20k because your marginal rate is so low.

calvinbhai 10y ago

wow, thats quite a thorough calculation of expenses. But I'd assume a leased car probably has less maintanence costs, but certainly added costs for gas. I'm not sure if you factored in commercial insurance for a leased vehicle which will be more expensive per month, compared to personal auto insurance for own car. Factoring the commercial/rideshare auto insurance in, will leave little wiggle room.

tyingq 10y ago

Great breakdown. Again, though, that's $12.30/hr as 1099 income, subject to self employment taxes,...and no sick days, paid holidays, vacation, unemployment coverage, insurance, etc.

alphast0rm 10y ago
> ...and no sick days, paid holidays, vacation That's not really true - one of the big advantages of driving for Uber is you set your own hours, so you can take time off whenever you would like.
- chinathrow 10y ago
  No, that would be "unpaid time off".
- devindotcom 10y ago
  big difference between paid time off and just not working
  - aianus 10y ago
    There is no real difference between the two. If you were a robot working effectively 365 days a year you would be able to command a proportionally higher salary/wage. "Paid" time off is as much of a lie as "employer" payroll taxes.
    - lawpoop 10y ago
      Not in a minimum wage scenario.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > There is no real difference between the two. There is when comparing hourly compensation in a role that provides no paid time off with hourly compensation in role that provides paid time off. For instance, a $10/hr that accrues 1 hour of paid sick leave for every 30 hours of work (the minimum for an accrual plan meeting California's paid sick leave mandate) is better paid than a $10/hr job that does not (the actual value is up to $10.33/hr, though restrictions on the use of paid sick leave may make it somewhat less but always greater than $10/hr.) > "Paid" time off is as much of a lie as "employer" payroll taxes. Employer-share payroll taxes are not a lie, either; they are both real taxes, and they really do not come out of your gross pay (they may reduce the gross pay the employer is willing to offer, but that doesn't make them "a lie", it just means they have other effects.) The distinction probably was most critically important to people who had employment contracts in place that straddled the time when payroll taxes were first implemented, since the employee share was the part that the employee's reimbursement was reduced below the status quo ante, whereas the employer share was not. Like paid time off, its important to keep the difference in mind when comparing employment that has employer-share payroll taxes (generally, W-2 employment) with employment that does not but instead pays the equivalent of both shares as self-employment taxes (1099), since the nominal pay of the two kinds of employments is not directly comparable without adjusting for the differences.

dragonwriter 10y ago

You'd also need to subtract half of the self-employment taxes (equivalent to the employer share of payroll taxes) to get an employee-wage-equivalent figure. Assuming that the $12.3/hr is the net before SE taxes, SE taxes are about $1.74/hr and the employer-share-equivalent is $0.87/hr, leaving a wage-equivalent of $10.43/hr. Which is just barely above California's minimum wage ($10.00) today, and not (as suggested upthread) better than the most generous minimum wage proposals.