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The comments that I have seen from him on that topic (and it should be noted that I have only read a small part of his comments so this may not be representativ

The comments that I have seen from him on that topic (and it should be noted that I have only read a small part of his comments so this may not be representative of his thoughts on these matters) implied that those groups were better slaves because they were more resilient or stronger, so were able to better survive slavery than less resilient or weaker groups. I don't see why that would make people from those groups feel unwelcome. If anything I would expect people from the groups that he says were genetically not as good as slaves to be the ones who would feel unwelcome. The implication is that they are weaker or less resilient.

zardgiv 10y ago
Wait, so your argument is that only Native Americans would feel unwelcome in this community? Is this supposed to be in his favor? EDIT: For clarity
- lhnz 10y ago
  > So your argument is that Native Americans should feel unwelcome in this community? You're putting words in 5F36B5F62640's mouth. And to be absolutely honest, anybody reading this can see that you're the one attempting to make people feel unwelcome in this community. Edit: The commenter has now upgraded his comment but the original with added emphasis is quoted above.
  - zardgiv 10y ago
    That was the example Moldbug used, claiming that Africans made genetically better slaves than Native Americans. 5F36B5F62640 contended that the groups that were not better slaves should feel unwelcome. This is just the basic logical implication of taking those two claims together. Rather than attacking me personally, is there something I missed or was incorrect about?
    - lhnz 10y ago
      You created a 'should' from a 'would', and therefore implied that 5F36B5F62640 had ill-feelings towards Indians. I'm not attacking you personally, nor am I speaking to you personally. I am just pointing out to anybody reading this, that you just tried to smear somebody. Of course, whether you did so on purpose is another matter.
      - zardgiv 10y ago
        You're grasping a bit on this. Logic does not dictate that there were implied ill-feelings on 5F36B5F62640's behalf. In fact, I can categorically state that from the one post I've read from them I do not believe they have any such ill-feelings! To restate, then: "Wait, so your argument is that only Native Americans would feel unwelcome in this community? Is this supposed to be in his favor?" I appreciate your dedication to accuracy, and I must assume this satisfies your complaint.
        lhnz 10y ago
        It wasn't a grasp. The rhetorical effect of your comment was to imply some sentiment from 5F36B5F62640 on 'what ought to be'. Yes, that is no longer accusatory; and it is correct: there are other sets of people that would no doubt feel unwelcome in such a community. I think in a practical sense their fear is overblown as 'Code is law'. However people generally make decisions based on consensus reality.
ksrm 10y ago
Do you seriously not see how someone discussing how good a slave you would make is (at the very least) 'unwelcoming'?
- mixedCase 10y ago
  Was that on Urbit's homepage? The docs? The IRC? The subreddit? Over e-mail? Was it something like "yeah it is a functional system... hey have I mentioned how much potential you have for whenever you feel like dedicating your life to slavery?" ...or was it just the guy rambling on a blog of his under a pen name? It's pretty obvious to anyone that the guy's views are obscenely offensive, but if the guy is strictly professional when it comes to Urbit, treats everyone with the same respect and works just fine along with many people that despise his views, how are the project's goals tainted?
  - Rusky 10y ago
    Because people don't just see Urbit, if they end up participating long-term. They see Yarvin, and he definitely is not one to hide his worldview. As much as some people like to pretend it's only about tech, tech is made by people and it requires them to interact with each other, and that can never be completely confined to code.
    - mixedCase 10y ago
      >They see Yarvin, and he definitely is not one to hide his worldview. While talking to Urbit contributors about Urbit?
      - Rusky 10y ago
        By definition no, of course. But I have never done a non-trivial amount of open source-style work (coding or otherwise) with someone who shares their political views online, without learning about them somehow. And in fact, every Urbit contributor in this thread who's mentioned this has also heard about Yarvin's political views, and not from this thread. It appears to me there's already a kind of self-selection process in Urbit contributors, towards those who are comfortable tolerating his garbage. And that's exactly the problem.

zardgiv 10y ago

Wait, so your argument is that only Native Americans would feel unwelcome in this community? Is this supposed to be in his favor? EDIT: For clarity

lhnz 10y ago
> So your argument is that Native Americans should feel unwelcome in this community? You're putting words in 5F36B5F62640's mouth. And to be absolutely honest, anybody reading this can see that you're the one attempting to make people feel unwelcome in this community. Edit: The commenter has now upgraded his comment but the original with added emphasis is quoted above.
- zardgiv 10y ago
  That was the example Moldbug used, claiming that Africans made genetically better slaves than Native Americans. 5F36B5F62640 contended that the groups that were not better slaves should feel unwelcome. This is just the basic logical implication of taking those two claims together. Rather than attacking me personally, is there something I missed or was incorrect about?
  - lhnz 10y ago
    You created a 'should' from a 'would', and therefore implied that 5F36B5F62640 had ill-feelings towards Indians. I'm not attacking you personally, nor am I speaking to you personally. I am just pointing out to anybody reading this, that you just tried to smear somebody. Of course, whether you did so on purpose is another matter.
    - zardgiv 10y ago
      You're grasping a bit on this. Logic does not dictate that there were implied ill-feelings on 5F36B5F62640's behalf. In fact, I can categorically state that from the one post I've read from them I do not believe they have any such ill-feelings! To restate, then: "Wait, so your argument is that only Native Americans would feel unwelcome in this community? Is this supposed to be in his favor?" I appreciate your dedication to accuracy, and I must assume this satisfies your complaint.
      - lhnz 10y ago
        It wasn't a grasp. The rhetorical effect of your comment was to imply some sentiment from 5F36B5F62640 on 'what ought to be'. Yes, that is no longer accusatory; and it is correct: there are other sets of people that would no doubt feel unwelcome in such a community. I think in a practical sense their fear is overblown as 'Code is law'. However people generally make decisions based on consensus reality.

ksrm 10y ago

Do you seriously not see how someone discussing how good a slave you would make is (at the very least) 'unwelcoming'?

mixedCase 10y ago
Was that on Urbit's homepage? The docs? The IRC? The subreddit? Over e-mail? Was it something like "yeah it is a functional system... hey have I mentioned how much potential you have for whenever you feel like dedicating your life to slavery?" ...or was it just the guy rambling on a blog of his under a pen name? It's pretty obvious to anyone that the guy's views are obscenely offensive, but if the guy is strictly professional when it comes to Urbit, treats everyone with the same respect and works just fine along with many people that despise his views, how are the project's goals tainted?
- Rusky 10y ago
  Because people don't just see Urbit, if they end up participating long-term. They see Yarvin, and he definitely is not one to hide his worldview. As much as some people like to pretend it's only about tech, tech is made by people and it requires them to interact with each other, and that can never be completely confined to code.
  - mixedCase 10y ago
    >They see Yarvin, and he definitely is not one to hide his worldview. While talking to Urbit contributors about Urbit?
    - Rusky 10y ago
      By definition no, of course. But I have never done a non-trivial amount of open source-style work (coding or otherwise) with someone who shares their political views online, without learning about them somehow. And in fact, every Urbit contributor in this thread who's mentioned this has also heard about Yarvin's political views, and not from this thread. It appears to me there's already a kind of self-selection process in Urbit contributors, towards those who are comfortable tolerating his garbage. And that's exactly the problem.