4 ms·

I think the first picture is pretty ugly, it looks too much like eclipse.

by johnrob 19y ago

ardit33 19y ago
and what's wrong with eclipse? It does it's job well. It is an IDE not just a editor, and so far has been pretty popular for good reasons. I know it is trendy to bash java, but really what's wrong with eclipse?
- mnemonicsloth 19y ago
  It's not Emacs. If that isn't enough, it's also not Vim.
- johnrob 19y ago
  For many folks, myself included, the spirit of emacs is to avoid the mouse. That particular screen looks like it was designed to be used with a mouse. I agree that eclipse is a useful tool, but I don't think it has much in common with emacs. It feels strange saying this about editors, but they embody completely different notions of how programming is done. For example, when I pull up a file in emacs, I intend to read the code. Eclipse users tend to load the file and then examine the structure tab, looking directly at the method definitions. I've seen eclipse users ignore my comments because of this structure pane (and not reading the code file top to bottom). These editors definitely put us on different wave lengths :)
  - fendale 19y ago
    You can use the ECB (emacs code browser, which is what's displayed in the left column of the first image) quite happily without the mouse - I use it quite a lot in a terminal.
  - ghiotion 19y ago
    My God. I never noticed that, but you're absolutely right. I'm a vi guy myself, but all the other, more _visually_ oriented developers in the office don't read code from top to bottom. They scan the methods in the structure tab on eclipse. I always wondered why their eyes would constantly drift off the editor...
- tjr 19y ago
  I used Eclipse nearly every business day for about 18 months. Search didn't fully work; accordingly, search and replace didn't fully work. Workspaces would randomly get corrupted, and code would "build" that really shouldn't build (i.e., code with syntax errors would claim to have built). Sometimes deleting every object and make file cleaned things up, but sometimes it didn't, and I would just have to make an entirely new workspace. (Possibly a bug in our makefile system rather than Eclipse proper.) Buttons along the lines of "Check here if you never want to see this again" didn't actually work. Depending on the workspace, I would have to log myself into Subversion over and over and over; generally multiple times for commit/update/whatever. (Possibly a bug in Subclipse rather than Eclipse proper.) An older version of Eclipse (3.1.1, if I recall correctly) got so corrupted on my machine that I could literally launch if, then just sit there for a minute or two, and Eclipse would die. I wouldn't even have to use it; it'd just die. In short, I have not had pleasurable experiences with Eclipse. I strongly suspect that my experiences were not the norm, since Eclipse is so popular, but whatever the cause of this badness -- the fault of Eclipse proper or not -- I prefer going back to Emacs. :-) Honestly, if I hadn't had such weird experiences with Eclipse, I probably would like it. It seems to be a very nice system (or at least it ought to be, when it works right). You can even set it up with Emacs keybindings, which help ease the transition somewhat.
  - Tichy 19y ago
    I've never had any of the issues you describe.

I think the first picture is pretty ugly, it looks too much like eclipse.

by johnrob 19y ago

I think the first picture is pretty ugly, it looks too much like eclipse.

and what's wrong with eclipse? It does it's job well. It is an IDE not just a editor, and so far has been pretty popular for good reasons. I know it is trendy to bash java, but really what's wrong with eclipse?

mnemonicsloth 19y ago
It's not Emacs. If that isn't enough, it's also not Vim.
johnrob 19y ago
For many folks, myself included, the spirit of emacs is to avoid the mouse. That particular screen looks like it was designed to be used with a mouse. I agree that eclipse is a useful tool, but I don't think it has much in common with emacs. It feels strange saying this about editors, but they embody completely different notions of how programming is done. For example, when I pull up a file in emacs, I intend to read the code. Eclipse users tend to load the file and then examine the structure tab, looking directly at the method definitions. I've seen eclipse users ignore my comments because of this structure pane (and not reading the code file top to bottom). These editors definitely put us on different wave lengths :)
- fendale 19y ago
  You can use the ECB (emacs code browser, which is what's displayed in the left column of the first image) quite happily without the mouse - I use it quite a lot in a terminal.
- ghiotion 19y ago
  My God. I never noticed that, but you're absolutely right. I'm a vi guy myself, but all the other, more _visually_ oriented developers in the office don't read code from top to bottom. They scan the methods in the structure tab on eclipse. I always wondered why their eyes would constantly drift off the editor...
tjr 19y ago
I used Eclipse nearly every business day for about 18 months. Search didn't fully work; accordingly, search and replace didn't fully work. Workspaces would randomly get corrupted, and code would "build" that really shouldn't build (i.e., code with syntax errors would claim to have built). Sometimes deleting every object and make file cleaned things up, but sometimes it didn't, and I would just have to make an entirely new workspace. (Possibly a bug in our makefile system rather than Eclipse proper.) Buttons along the lines of "Check here if you never want to see this again" didn't actually work. Depending on the workspace, I would have to log myself into Subversion over and over and over; generally multiple times for commit/update/whatever. (Possibly a bug in Subclipse rather than Eclipse proper.) An older version of Eclipse (3.1.1, if I recall correctly) got so corrupted on my machine that I could literally launch if, then just sit there for a minute or two, and Eclipse would die. I wouldn't even have to use it; it'd just die. In short, I have not had pleasurable experiences with Eclipse. I strongly suspect that my experiences were not the norm, since Eclipse is so popular, but whatever the cause of this badness -- the fault of Eclipse proper or not -- I prefer going back to Emacs. :-) Honestly, if I hadn't had such weird experiences with Eclipse, I probably would like it. It seems to be a very nice system (or at least it ought to be, when it works right). You can even set it up with Emacs keybindings, which help ease the transition somewhat.
- Tichy 19y ago
  I've never had any of the issues you describe.