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I think this is a little bit sensationalized at the very least. This excerpt in particular caught me off guard. "Abuse by young professionals is distressingly

• semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  I believe it's well-established that Adderall has a profoundly different effect on people like yourself who actually have ADHD, than on those who don't have ADHD. So when TFA talks about "abuse", I understand it as referring to people who do not have ADHD but are obtaining these medications illegitimately. It is unfortunate that the article mixes this up with the (presumably legitimate) increase in ADHD diagnoses.
  • schrodinger 10y ago
    I thought that was a myth that has been dispelled. Do you have any research to back that up?
    • justin_vanw 10y ago
      Yes this is a myth, it has the same effect on everyone.
      • Vraxx 10y ago
        Not trying to disregard this sentiment present in the thread, but I could easily see it having the same physical effects, but how exactly do they quantify how it affects your brain processes and how you feel. Anecdotally, I knew some people who took adderall in college that were not prescribed it and it seemed to cause them to have different behavior than myself. A similar situation, I would imagine, is how alcohol affects people differently. Maybe not physically, but you definitely see a wide range of actions and behaviors elicited among different individuals.
        • lfowles 10y ago
          It's probably all about dose. Just takes more for an ADHD individual to be affected the same.
          • Vraxx 10y ago
            Maybe, maybe not. My education is not in biology or medicine, so I cannot really speak well on the dominant factors in how a drug affects any given person.
          • falcolas 10y ago
            I believe so, the treatment dose is small enough that the physical stimulant effects are typically very minor, even for new users. I don't have numbers, but I recall that people abusing it for the stimulant effect use 3/4x the ADHD prescription dose, which results in very different effects.
          • ta_339393 10y ago
            Metabolism plays a big role in determining the effective dose. There are people who can take what are considered high therapeutic doses and feel very little effects because of the way their body metabolizes the chemical, which of course has nothing to do with whether they have ADHD or not.
            • bpchaps 10y ago
              For sure. I take adderall and have an incredibly high metabolism to the point of needing to add 1500 calories per day in protein shakes to stay at a healthy weigh. 7.5mg (15mg in half) is my usual dosage, but it's strong enough to fill me with the energy you'd expect someone on a high dosage to have. When I talk a full pill, it completely screws me over. Others can take 30mg and be completely fine.
  • ta_339393 10y ago
    That is a myth, the effects are the same regardless of whether or not you have ADHD otherwise we'd be able to test for ADHD by simply giving someone amphetamines and seeing how they respond. Almost anyone who takes low-dose amphetamines will experience enhanced cognition. It just happens that this enhancement also alleviates symptoms of ADHD. As you pointed out the problem with the article is that it makes no distinction between therapeutic low-dose usage and abuse level usage.
    • Lewton 10y ago
      I thought giving people adhd meds and seeing whether it relaxes them was a pretty good (not perfect) indicator? Am I wrong?
      • ta_339393 10y ago
        That's not true, I have ADHD and I still feel stimulated when I take my medicine just like anyone else would. The difference is that it also gives me symptom relief as well. Over time you will develop more of a tolerance to these stimulating effects, at least to a degree, but the therapeutic benefits will continue for as long as you take them.
        • Vraxx 10y ago
          And therein lies the problem with making generalizations from single data points. Supposedly I have ADHD as well (I'm diagnosed such at least), and I generally become more mellow after taking adderall. I think the moral of this further anecdote is that generalizations should not be made on either of our experiences. Add into that the confounding factors of human bodies not being identical and having differing reactions to the same stimuli, and it becomes an even more dangerous game.
          • Lewton 10y ago
            I agree, I wasn't trying to imply that relaxation from stimulants would be -the- diagnosis for adhd, but if people with adhd tend to relax from the meds and people without adhd tend to not relax, then the claim that it's a myth that the meds affect adhd sufferers differently would be a lie
• Havoc 10y ago
  >bit sensationalized...This excerpt..."Abuse by young professionals" I don't think so. I'm in one of those environments where long hours are common and it definitely does happen. There are also people using a mix of uppers & downers (need the uppers to be wide awake but then can't sleep when at home hence downers). Hell I'm doing a vaguely similar thing (just with coffee and melatonin). Add a bit of anti-depressants and I don't think "cracked out of their minds" is that far fetched. I would say its definitely a small minority though (in my workplace)...places like New York & London...not so sure. >But I'd hardly call myself cracked out on drugs. Well I'm sure your case is perfectly legitimate, but you've got to admit that self-assessment in this type of situation is rather unreliable.
  • huac 10y ago
    OT: wouldn't recommend melatonin for constant use. more useful in setting a fixed bedtime; taking it too often may cause issues falling asleep.
    • yarou 10y ago
      Anecdotally, I can attest to this. I took melatonin for 3 days straight and my circadian dysregulation crept up again on the 4th. I've found that simple sleep hygiene habits (no blue light exposure 30 mins before, taking a shower, etc) facilitates better sleep than melatonin.
      • coredog64 10y ago
        I use melatonin to recover from jet lag. It's not to _get_ to sleep, it's to stay asleep when my body normally thinks it should be getting up. If you can find one, I'd recommend* an S+ by ResMed. It uses radar to track your sleep and can discern what phase of sleep you're in. It tracks how long it takes you to go to sleep and can offer specific hints to address issues you might be having. The app hasn't been kept up to date, but if you've got an older iOS 8.x device you're not going to upgrade that would pair well with it. *Disclaimer: I worked at ResMed on the S+. I no longer work at ResMed but I still like my S+.
• deleted 10y ago
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• md224 10y ago
  Agreed. I was struck by the same line, "cracked out of their minds"... very biased. I don't know if "abuse" used to have a coherent meaning, but these days it boils down to "used in a way I don't like". Drug use is certainly a mixed bag but it deserves a balanced treatment, not scare tactics. The article even goes on to list great accomplishments that were made possible (or at least supported) by drug use. Talk about cognitive dissonance... EDIT: For a wonderfully contrarian take on drug policy, check out Jessica Flanigan's "Three arguments against prescription requirements": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22844026 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22844026
  • WalterSear 10y ago
    "Narcotic" stimulants tipped me off.
    • thisguy666 10y ago
      Narcotic is an actual word with an actual definition that is completely appropriate in this scenario. This is no way sensationalized.
      • WalterSear 10y ago
        Stimulants don't put you to sleep.
        • thisguy666 10y ago
          Are you joking? They can and that is part of the reason they are given to REAL ADHD patients.
          • WalterSear 10y ago
            The paradoxical stimulant effect is as mythical as your personal definition for the word 'narcotic'.
  • HarryHirsch 10y ago
• dcosson 10y ago
  Another bit of sensationalism I noticed, the article mentions people have died after mixing adhd meds and alcohol. But the link was to an article about a person who died after mixing adhd meds, narcotic painkillers, and alcohol. It's well-documented that mixing narcotic painkillers & alcohol on its own is very dangerous. There may also be dangers of mixing adderall and alcohol, but it does everyone a disservice to casually reference such a different situation.
  • Vraxx 10y ago
    Seriously. I worried about the potential interaction between my prescribed adderall and alcohol for a long while, and usually deferred to not taking them anywhere near at the same time, but I found no evidence to suggest that the two had any particular interaction.
  • kernelbandwidth 10y ago
    Agreed. There's a recurring theme with drugs that mixing X and alcohol is dangerous. Don't get me wrong, I like good wine, craft beer, and liquor. But the common link is generally the "and alcohol" part. It seems pretty clear alcohol is a remarkably dangerous drug, just normalized by social use.
    • deleted 10y ago
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  • shermanyo 10y ago
    My doctor told me to redose in the evening if I'm going to a social gathering, and it changed my interactions completely. Instead of writing myself off with shots until I can handle the social side, I am able to carry conversations, am not overwhelmed by the stimulus (imagine trying to have a conversation, while playing pinball and reading a book in a loud room). It was a huge factor in breaking a drinking problem, which was actually masking many of my ADHD symptoms. It's a highly personal anecdote, but does show the other side of the coin. (for the record, I don't generally drink anymore, never on my meds. when I do plan a night out, its usually with close friends so many of the issues just aren't there.)
• deleted 10y ago
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• eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  I don't think anyone's implying there's a problem if you're using something prescribed by a doctor. The problem is that people using who don't have a doctor's prescription, and worse, the market pressure to use drugs.
• sanoli 10y ago
  By the way, why would dentists be "cracked out" on amphetamines? Is it a very competitive field or are the hours terrible for a dentist in the US? (I also thought it was a bit over the top, but the dentist in the example stuck out even more for me -- I don't live in the US, and the dentists I've known had pretty normal, non-stressful work lives.)
  • ashworth 10y ago
    I interned as an orthodontic assistant before entering the software engineering field. Dental school admissions are highly competitive, require several years of additional schooling, and will place the student in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. My anecdote follows. The orthodontist I worked for put in serious hours well beyond many of the "crunch time" horror stories we hear in tech, typically arriving at her practice at 5:30am and leaving at 8pm (prepping the office, working on orthodontic appliances, case studies, paperwork), and working Saturdays as a part time Dean at the local dental school. There were also state mandated continuing education requirements, the occasional emergency call, lawsuit, delinquent payments, marketing and sales for her practice, the occasional sales call from a vendor rolling out "Smart Brackets", and the need to manage 10+ employees and maintain professional relationships with other dental medicine practitioners for referrals and covering sick days. She was incredibly driven and competitive, probably an outlier, but was also certainly a multimillionaire and an accomplished dentist.
• cs2818 10y ago
  I'm in the same boat as you and I am beginning to worry about the effects of these increasingly frequent and exaggerated articles about stimulant use. I feel like a narrative is being constructed that will eventually lead to it being extremely difficult treat conditions which benefit from stimulant medications.
• morgante 10y ago
  Indeed. It also doesn't provide any evidence to support the notion that workforce usage is "distressingly common." This is hardly any less sensationalist than the 1914 NYT article they mock.
• heurist 10y ago
  Seriously. I get more buzzed off a couple cups of coffee than vyvanse, but vyvanse helps me stay focused much longer. I'd have no chance of attaining the life I want to live without antidepressants and some stimulants, the weight of life is crushing without them.
• robohamburger 10y ago
  I use Ritalin to treat my ADHD and that was my reaction as well. I have developed a thick skin over the years to the FUD around amphetamines. I can also see how dangerous it could be taking a drug like this without getting the dosage calculated right. Interestingly a pretty prolific mathematician, Paul Erdős used amphetamines [1]. Not sure which one(s) though. I don't think he had a prescription but I think it worked out OK. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s
  • reitanqild 10y ago
    And why was this downvoted? There certainly is a whole lot of FUD around drugs, even completely legal ones like R.
    • robohamburger 10y ago
      Looking at the other posts it looks I am confused about what constitutes an amphetamine? I guess I am fine if people want to be pedantic.
  • antihero 10y ago
    I think the issue with amphetamines is because if taken recreationally the quantities and methods of taking are vastly different. So when I was at school I was on something like 20mg of Ritalin (0.02g) twice a day via a pill that was digested by my stomach. Even that lead to issues with diet and sleep and anxiety. Whereas if we're at a rave we'll happily share 1g+ (say between 2 of us which is 12x the amount) of amphetamine between a few of us and put that shit right up our noses so it's absorbed super quick. The comedown from that is more just a feeling of absolute terror (AKA speed comedown psychosis. I try to mostly avoid it now because it can't be doing me or my mind much good). I'm far more interested in nootropics over stimulants. E: Just ordered some Noopept so I'll get back to you.
    • adrusi 10y ago
      People using amphetamine off-prescription at work will be taking it like ADHD medication, not like at a party.
• ramblerman 10y ago
  As someone who has taken various recreational and over the counter drugs I question that sentiment. Having a prescription doesn't make adderall magically different. To me it's very much like speed or cocaine, just longer lasting and more consistent with less of a let down. 1) any child who takes it certainly has an advantage 2) I couldn't fathom taking something that strong every single day for months on end (if not years). Regardless of your neurological makeup, just the stress on your heart seems insane Would love to hear alternative opinions, mainly I'm skeptical it's effect is that different for ADHD sufferers and non afflicted people. I mean we all have issues concentrating and it's probably more of a sliding scale across the population.
  • InclinedPlane 10y ago
    "Regardless of your neurological makeup" This is where you go off the rails. Neurology makes a huge difference in the effect of many drugs, and there has been a tremendous amount of research backing that up. Just because you personally can't believe it doesn't mean it's not true.
    • thaumasiotes 10y ago
      You might be interested in reading the rest of the sentence you're quoting: > Regardless of your neurological makeup, just the stress on your heart seems insane
      • fyolnish 10y ago
        Your neurological makeup might determine what effect some drugs have on your heart rate?
        • JustUhThought 10y ago
          No. It doesn't. He said, whatever your neurological makeup might be, Adderall is going to be unhealthy on your heart. Adderall works primarily by switching your norepinephrine and dopamine in the brain, in all brains. From Wikipedia, norepinephrine: "The general function of norepinephrine is to mobilize the brain and body for action. Norepinephrine release is lowest during sleep, rises during wakefulness, and reaches much higher levels during situations of stress or danger, in the so-called fight-or-flight response. In the brain, norepinephrine increases arousal and alertness, promotes vigilance, enhances formation and retrieval of memory, and focuses attention; it also increases restlessness and anxiety. In the rest of the body, norepinephrine increases heart rate and blood pressure, triggers the release of glucose from energy stores, increases blood flow to skeletal muscle, reduces blood flow to the gastrointestinal system, and inhibits voiding of the bladder and gastrointestinal motility." Anecdotally my doctors switched me from Adderall to Armodafinil for this explicit reason. My blood pressure was pre hypertensive after taking Adderall for only a short time.