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No one is taking advantage of those opportunities because there's no jobs there. With a UBI, people who want to just live off the UBI alone may decide to move

No one is taking advantage of those opportunities because there's no jobs there. With a UBI, people who want to just live off the UBI alone may decide to move to places like that, esp. if they're itching to "get away from it all" and live in solitude in a rural setting (in the case of KS anyway). They can't do it now because you can't survive without an income, and there's no jobs there. You can't survive on free land alone. Growing your own food isn't that easy, nor is it very nutritious (early farmers had terrible health and were a foot shorter than their hunter-gatherer ancestors; eating too much of the same thing is bad for you). Without an income, where are you going to get money for seeds? And how are you going to pay for other things like electricity to run your well pump, or parts to fix your well pump when it breaks? With a UBI, those things suddenly become possible if you really want that kind of lifestyle. As for Detroit, $500 houses aren't very appealing in a place with a reputation for horrible crime, and where again there's no jobs (if there were good jobs there, the houses wouldn't cost $500). But who knows, a UBI might allow a bunch of young hipsters to move into the place and try to turn it into an art colony or something.

prostoalex 10y ago
Fair enough. There're examples of that behavior in the retiree community, where a Social Security recipient moves to Costa Rica, Thailand, New Zealand or (until recent violence spike) Mexico to arbitrage their Social Security check into greater buying power.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  Yes, but Costa Rica, Thailand, and New Zealand are not barren, desolate places where these retirees need to live "off the grid". They're civilized, populated places; retirees move there because the cost of living is much lower: they can afford a nice home and some servants which they can't afford on the Social Security pension here. With a UBI scheme, this can't be allowed. People on Social Security can do this because they've earned that check by paying into the system over their working years (and in reality, expats like that have more money than just a measly SS check; it's not that cheap to live in those places, especially NZ; these are middle-class and up people with IRAs). UBI is not like this: it's unearned, but it's a dividend paid to citizens in the society for being part of that society, and taking advantage of the fruits of that society (like automated production). It's also an investment: it's meant to allow citizens to be free of severe financial worry, so they can take more risks (like starting a new business), or take more time off for good mental health. Part of the bargain, however, is that they have to actually stay in the society. That UBI check they get needs to be spent in the country, where it can be circulated back into the economy, for it all to work. If they just move to Costa Rica and spend all their UBI money there, that isn't helping the American economy.

prostoalex 10y ago

Fair enough. There're examples of that behavior in the retiree community, where a Social Security recipient moves to Costa Rica, Thailand, New Zealand or (until recent violence spike) Mexico to arbitrage their Social Security check into greater buying power.

Grishnakh 10y ago
Yes, but Costa Rica, Thailand, and New Zealand are not barren, desolate places where these retirees need to live "off the grid". They're civilized, populated places; retirees move there because the cost of living is much lower: they can afford a nice home and some servants which they can't afford on the Social Security pension here. With a UBI scheme, this can't be allowed. People on Social Security can do this because they've earned that check by paying into the system over their working years (and in reality, expats like that have more money than just a measly SS check; it's not that cheap to live in those places, especially NZ; these are middle-class and up people with IRAs). UBI is not like this: it's unearned, but it's a dividend paid to citizens in the society for being part of that society, and taking advantage of the fruits of that society (like automated production). It's also an investment: it's meant to allow citizens to be free of severe financial worry, so they can take more risks (like starting a new business), or take more time off for good mental health. Part of the bargain, however, is that they have to actually stay in the society. That UBI check they get needs to be spent in the country, where it can be circulated back into the economy, for it all to work. If they just move to Costa Rica and spend all their UBI money there, that isn't helping the American economy.