3 ms·

This seems to be one rule where the employee is more protected in the US than the EU. Unpaid internships are common here. Common to the extent that some graduat

This seems to be one rule where the employee is more protected in the US than the EU. Unpaid internships are common here. Common to the extent that some graduates end up working for free for years before finally being promoted to a paid position. It's so prolific that the current generation of 20-somethings is frequently called "Generation Praktikum" (the internship generation) in Austria & Germany.

scscsc 17y ago
It's not that they are more protected; market economy simply works that way: MS/Apple/Google/Facebook/etc are competing for employers, the best way to get good ones is from good interns.
ido 17y ago
I don't know where you are exactly, but I am in Vienna and I haven't really encountered those unpaid internships much at all, at least not among the computer science & mathematics crowd. I and a lot of people I know are/were working (not as interns) alongside school and many internships at the university are payed. The pay might not be as high as what you'd get after you graduate but it's definitively better than most working class jobs that do not require any formal education.
- eru 17y ago
  > I don't know where you are exactly, but I am in Vienna and I haven't really encountered those unpaid internships much at all, at least not among the computer science & mathematics crowd. The grandfather-post's observation applies more to liberal arts students (Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaften). With a math degree in Germany I never had a problem getting a paid internship during my studies. Some of my friends in the liberal arts, however, have to do unpaid interships even after finishing their studies. Of course the media perception is dominated by liberal arts guys, because they are the ones who complain loudly and in a matter sympathetic to journalists. (While the more technical minded people are too busy making money and enjoying themselves.) Hence the "Generation Praktikum".
  - pmjordan 17y ago
    As far as I can tell, it applies to graphic designers [1], architects, animators, etc. as well. As a programmer I've got more people throwing money at me than I have time for, so it definitely depends on what it is you do. I also think the indefinite internships are partly self-inflicted - once you make it known that your time is available for free, employers are probably more likely to exploit that. A lot of students in Austria seem to have almost comically socialist views, maybe the concept that they're selling their time on the free market is foreign to them. [1] my sister is in that boat right now - she can find paid unskilled work or unpaid design work; she's in Berlin, though
    - eru 17y ago
      Vienna should be somewhat easier. Berlin is chronically poor.
      - pmjordan 17y ago
        Yeah, I'm not sure why she moved there. The "hip" reputation maybe. Certainly not the weather. ;)
        eru 17y ago
        Maybe because of the Austrians? ;o)

scscsc 17y ago

It's not that they are more protected; market economy simply works that way: MS/Apple/Google/Facebook/etc are competing for employers, the best way to get good ones is from good interns.

ido 17y ago

I don't know where you are exactly, but I am in Vienna and I haven't really encountered those unpaid internships much at all, at least not among the computer science & mathematics crowd. I and a lot of people I know are/were working (not as interns) alongside school and many internships at the university are payed. The pay might not be as high as what you'd get after you graduate but it's definitively better than most working class jobs that do not require any formal education.

eru 17y ago
> I don't know where you are exactly, but I am in Vienna and I haven't really encountered those unpaid internships much at all, at least not among the computer science & mathematics crowd. The grandfather-post's observation applies more to liberal arts students (Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaften). With a math degree in Germany I never had a problem getting a paid internship during my studies. Some of my friends in the liberal arts, however, have to do unpaid interships even after finishing their studies. Of course the media perception is dominated by liberal arts guys, because they are the ones who complain loudly and in a matter sympathetic to journalists. (While the more technical minded people are too busy making money and enjoying themselves.) Hence the "Generation Praktikum".
- pmjordan 17y ago
  As far as I can tell, it applies to graphic designers [1], architects, animators, etc. as well. As a programmer I've got more people throwing money at me than I have time for, so it definitely depends on what it is you do. I also think the indefinite internships are partly self-inflicted - once you make it known that your time is available for free, employers are probably more likely to exploit that. A lot of students in Austria seem to have almost comically socialist views, maybe the concept that they're selling their time on the free market is foreign to them. [1] my sister is in that boat right now - she can find paid unskilled work or unpaid design work; she's in Berlin, though
  - eru 17y ago
    Vienna should be somewhat easier. Berlin is chronically poor.
    - pmjordan 17y ago
      Yeah, I'm not sure why she moved there. The "hip" reputation maybe. Certainly not the weather. ;)
      - eru 17y ago
        Maybe because of the Austrians? ;o)