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> There are probably about a dozen major causes of the problems in Syria, of which US/western involvement is only one. Yes, but there is a significant differen

> There are probably about a dozen major causes of the problems in Syria, of which US/western involvement is only one. Yes, but there is a significant difference between a terrible government and a full blown civil war. It's really impossible to see the later happening without US involvement.

bryanlarsen 10y ago
To riff on jcranmer's excellent comment: * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without the failure of the Ottoman Empire to create a unified culture and nation state. * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Religious rivalry between Sunni and Shiite Islam. * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Regional rivalry between Saudi Arabia (an autocratic Sunni state heavily reliant on a very conservative sect (Wahhabi) for legitimacy) and Iran (a theocratic Shiite state). * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Oil being the main economic mainstay, and not being conveniently divvied up among different ethnic regions * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Great power ambitions on the part of Turkey * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Superpower ambitions on the part of Russia * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without The failure of any state in the region to produce viable governments with strong internal legitimacy, rather than series of political "revolutions" that led to changing merely of who was treating the state as their feeding trough * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Western engagement in the region * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Western disengagement in the region
- forgotpwtomain 10y ago
  I've read his comment - I really don't see the purpose achieved by you copy and pasting it. His comment was a response as to why Syria has problems, not as to why there is civil war. Your take on his comment: > it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without the failure of the Ottoman Empire to create a unified culture and nation state Is something the equivalent that blaming the bombing of Hiroshima on the Shogunate would be. If you do not see the difference between historical events which contributed to a circumstance and recent ones which precipitated the events stemming from a circumstance (e.g. Truman's authorization) - than I think there is no way we can have a conversation.

bryanlarsen 10y ago

To riff on jcranmer's excellent comment: * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without the failure of the Ottoman Empire to create a unified culture and nation state. * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Religious rivalry between Sunni and Shiite Islam. * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Regional rivalry between Saudi Arabia (an autocratic Sunni state heavily reliant on a very conservative sect (Wahhabi) for legitimacy) and Iran (a theocratic Shiite state). * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Oil being the main economic mainstay, and not being conveniently divvied up among different ethnic regions * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Great power ambitions on the part of Turkey * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Superpower ambitions on the part of Russia * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without The failure of any state in the region to produce viable governments with strong internal legitimacy, rather than series of political "revolutions" that led to changing merely of who was treating the state as their feeding trough * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Western engagement in the region * it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without Western disengagement in the region

forgotpwtomain 10y ago
I've read his comment - I really don't see the purpose achieved by you copy and pasting it. His comment was a response as to why Syria has problems, not as to why there is civil war. Your take on his comment: > it's impossible to see full blown civil war happening without the failure of the Ottoman Empire to create a unified culture and nation state Is something the equivalent that blaming the bombing of Hiroshima on the Shogunate would be. If you do not see the difference between historical events which contributed to a circumstance and recent ones which precipitated the events stemming from a circumstance (e.g. Truman's authorization) - than I think there is no way we can have a conversation.