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Why Smule won't be developing mobile apps for Android

16 points by anderzole 17y ago

freetard 17y ago
Here's why: 1) they don't have the money to develop for both the iPhone and Android. 2) announcing they won't develop for Android will bring them some needed publicity as it did for that gaming company who did last time. 3) if they don't have the funds to develop for android and make money out of it, they may as well try to cash on the fact that they won't be developing for Android. All and all, pretty pathetic PR.
- anderzole 17y ago
  Over 4 million apps at around $2-$3 a pop? I'd say they have more than enough money. They also raised $8 million in December http://moconews.net/article/419-smule-adds-8-million-second-round-from-shasta-ventures/ http://moconews.net/article/419-smule-adds-8-million-second-...
- gte910h 17y ago
  I think you're trying to minimize the difficulty of the android platform: 1> Pure Compute Power between handsets varies widely. You can't do something that requires significant compute power without functioning poorly on the less powerful handsets. 2> Screen resolutions are all over the place (You have to test on 5-8 different resolutions). This is KILLER for someone doing a game or other fixed width layout. It's not like you see 15 different sizes of flash windows. MOST people can't afford to do multiple sizes. 3> Installed OS version is all over the place. While there is a supposed "upgrade to 2.1" happening later this spring for all handsets, I predict many handset owners won't do it, as it will require a data wipe. 4> The Tools Batman. Interface builder is leagues upon lightyears better than hand edited XML based java container layouts. You have easily 10x the layout and positioning work for Android, and you have to test this layout and positioning on all the different phones. 5> The installer: If your app has any amount of data in it, you have to write an installer and sell the installer, which then downloads your app. This is expensive. So yes, you're technically right, they don't have the money or don't see it a worthwhile investment to try to target the crappy android development landscape. Perhaps someone will make a unifying toolkit that does screen layouts well and is in Python or another one of the ASL toolkit, but with the current old school java development kit that is android, it's not going to be a winning target for many developers.
  - wallflower 17y ago
    > The Tools Batman. Interface builder is leagues upon lightyears better than hand edited XML based java container layouts. You have easily 10x the layout and positioning work for Android, and you have to test this layout and positioning on all the different phones. "Designing your interface on the iPhone is easy. It's fun. It's intuitive. On Android, it's fucking hell. It's like working with the evil offspring of GridBagLayout and XML. It's utterly horrid. But, Java has never done UI well and has never made it particularly fun so I can't say I was surprised by this, though it did exceed my expectations by being even worse than I thought humanly possible. The whole process is counter-intuitive and time-consuming, and that's just to make something that functions. It's even more time-consuming and painful to make a UI that doesn't look like ass." Android SDK from an iPhone Developer's Perspective http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2010/03/android-sdk-from-iphone-developer.html http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2010/03/android-sdk-fr...
    - alex_c 17y ago
      I've worked with both, and I can't really disagree. Android interface work IS a pain. "Counter-intuitive and time-consuming" is a very good way to describe it. The fact that Eclipse is often painfully slow on my Macbook doesn't help. On the plus side, I was pleasantly surprised that the layout DOES scale well for different screen sizes - which is the whole point of jumping through all the hoops in the first place. iPhone interface work isn't perfect, either - Interface Builder only gets you so far, and its strength is fixed layouts - once you throw in variable size elements, you have to do a lot by hand. I'd rate Android's interface system as a 7 or 8 on my personal "annoyance" scale, and iPhone a 4 or 5. I enjoy Android more than iPhone overall, but the interface is definitely not its strength.
      - briancooley 17y ago
        At the risk of telling you something you already know: I was having trouble with Eclipse running painfully slow on my MBP until I discovered it was using the 1.5 JVM. Switched it to 1.6, and now it's bearable.
  - 17y ago
davidw 17y ago
Because they're very clearly an Apple-only bunch, being interviewed for an Apple news site?
stanleydrew 17y ago
I don't really get it. Are they claiming that "I am T-Pain" would be expensive to build on Android because they would have to test it against a bunch of different devices and UIs? As far as I can tell the app shouldn't require any fancy UI elements. You just need a microphone and a speaker right?
- bmalicoat 17y ago
  It doesn't 'require' fancy UI elements but that's what makes a decent app good or a good app great. Having lots of fragmented hardware to support (eg multiple resolutions) is a pain.
  - vetinari 17y ago
    Multiple resolutions is not a problem, it is just pathetic excuse of Apple fanbois. Just wait, until Apple comes with iPhone using higher res, then of course it will be best thing since sliced bread and Apple will be first with such a novel concept.
    - bmalicoat 17y ago
      Multiple resolutions is a problem compared to one resolution, you don't have to be an Apple 'fanboi' to realize that. Most artwork isn't vector and has to be recreated appropriately. Apple of course will upgrade the resolution (probably this summer) and it will create problems for iPhone developers as well. Another concern is no clear baseline of the Android hardware, considering it can run on anything from microwaves to tablets.
- alxp 17y ago
  Also what if Motorola's microphone is sourced from a different supplier and has a different level of noise coming into it and it causes the app to not function, thousands of angry users and Smule's reputation is ruined. Predictability is a huge advantage.
RyanMcGreal 17y ago
> lynch-pin The word they're looking for is "linchpin".
starkfist 17y ago
There's also a technical reason. They use their own audio toolkit which evolved out of Chuck, which Ge developed as his PhD thesis. This would be a bear to port to Android. It would either require a complete rewrite or they'd have to use one of the weird NDK/Dalvik VM layer hacks that may or may not be officially supported.

16 points by anderzole 17y ago

Here's why: 1) they don't have the money to develop for both the iPhone and Android. 2) announcing they won't develop for Android will bring them some needed publicity as it did for that gaming company who did last time. 3) if they don't have the funds to develop for android and make money out of it, they may as well try to cash on the fact that they won't be developing for Android. All and all, pretty pathetic PR.

anderzole 17y ago
Over 4 million apps at around $2-$3 a pop? I'd say they have more than enough money. They also raised $8 million in December http://moconews.net/article/419-smule-adds-8-million-second-round-from-shasta-ventures/ http://moconews.net/article/419-smule-adds-8-million-second-...
gte910h 17y ago
I think you're trying to minimize the difficulty of the android platform: 1> Pure Compute Power between handsets varies widely. You can't do something that requires significant compute power without functioning poorly on the less powerful handsets. 2> Screen resolutions are all over the place (You have to test on 5-8 different resolutions). This is KILLER for someone doing a game or other fixed width layout. It's not like you see 15 different sizes of flash windows. MOST people can't afford to do multiple sizes. 3> Installed OS version is all over the place. While there is a supposed "upgrade to 2.1" happening later this spring for all handsets, I predict many handset owners won't do it, as it will require a data wipe. 4> The Tools Batman. Interface builder is leagues upon lightyears better than hand edited XML based java container layouts. You have easily 10x the layout and positioning work for Android, and you have to test this layout and positioning on all the different phones. 5> The installer: If your app has any amount of data in it, you have to write an installer and sell the installer, which then downloads your app. This is expensive. So yes, you're technically right, they don't have the money or don't see it a worthwhile investment to try to target the crappy android development landscape. Perhaps someone will make a unifying toolkit that does screen layouts well and is in Python or another one of the ASL toolkit, but with the current old school java development kit that is android, it's not going to be a winning target for many developers.
- wallflower 17y ago
  > The Tools Batman. Interface builder is leagues upon lightyears better than hand edited XML based java container layouts. You have easily 10x the layout and positioning work for Android, and you have to test this layout and positioning on all the different phones. "Designing your interface on the iPhone is easy. It's fun. It's intuitive. On Android, it's fucking hell. It's like working with the evil offspring of GridBagLayout and XML. It's utterly horrid. But, Java has never done UI well and has never made it particularly fun so I can't say I was surprised by this, though it did exceed my expectations by being even worse than I thought humanly possible. The whole process is counter-intuitive and time-consuming, and that's just to make something that functions. It's even more time-consuming and painful to make a UI that doesn't look like ass." Android SDK from an iPhone Developer's Perspective http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2010/03/android-sdk-from-iphone-developer.html http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2010/03/android-sdk-fr...
  - alex_c 17y ago
    I've worked with both, and I can't really disagree. Android interface work IS a pain. "Counter-intuitive and time-consuming" is a very good way to describe it. The fact that Eclipse is often painfully slow on my Macbook doesn't help. On the plus side, I was pleasantly surprised that the layout DOES scale well for different screen sizes - which is the whole point of jumping through all the hoops in the first place. iPhone interface work isn't perfect, either - Interface Builder only gets you so far, and its strength is fixed layouts - once you throw in variable size elements, you have to do a lot by hand. I'd rate Android's interface system as a 7 or 8 on my personal "annoyance" scale, and iPhone a 4 or 5. I enjoy Android more than iPhone overall, but the interface is definitely not its strength.
    - briancooley 17y ago
      At the risk of telling you something you already know: I was having trouble with Eclipse running painfully slow on my MBP until I discovered it was using the 1.5 JVM. Switched it to 1.6, and now it's bearable.
- 17y ago

davidw 17y ago

Because they're very clearly an Apple-only bunch, being interviewed for an Apple news site?

stanleydrew 17y ago

I don't really get it. Are they claiming that "I am T-Pain" would be expensive to build on Android because they would have to test it against a bunch of different devices and UIs? As far as I can tell the app shouldn't require any fancy UI elements. You just need a microphone and a speaker right?

bmalicoat 17y ago
It doesn't 'require' fancy UI elements but that's what makes a decent app good or a good app great. Having lots of fragmented hardware to support (eg multiple resolutions) is a pain.
- vetinari 17y ago
  Multiple resolutions is not a problem, it is just pathetic excuse of Apple fanbois. Just wait, until Apple comes with iPhone using higher res, then of course it will be best thing since sliced bread and Apple will be first with such a novel concept.
  - bmalicoat 17y ago
    Multiple resolutions is a problem compared to one resolution, you don't have to be an Apple 'fanboi' to realize that. Most artwork isn't vector and has to be recreated appropriately. Apple of course will upgrade the resolution (probably this summer) and it will create problems for iPhone developers as well. Another concern is no clear baseline of the Android hardware, considering it can run on anything from microwaves to tablets.
alxp 17y ago
Also what if Motorola's microphone is sourced from a different supplier and has a different level of noise coming into it and it causes the app to not function, thousands of angry users and Smule's reputation is ruined. Predictability is a huge advantage.

RyanMcGreal 17y ago

> lynch-pin The word they're looking for is "linchpin".

starkfist 17y ago

There's also a technical reason. They use their own audio toolkit which evolved out of Chuck, which Ge developed as his PhD thesis. This would be a bear to port to Android. It would either require a complete rewrite or they'd have to use one of the weird NDK/Dalvik VM layer hacks that may or may not be officially supported.