6 ms·

Another part of this I think that people don't really talk about is increased social isolation as a direct cause of Internet addiction and the rise of social me

by tristor 10y ago

Another part of this I think that people don't really talk about is increased social isolation as a direct cause of Internet addiction and the rise of social media and online gaming. There is a term for this concept in Japan 'hikikomori', but it's just as true in the US. As someone who recently turned 30, yet has remained single most of my life despite my other successes, I see it very clearly. I grew up along with the Internet as many people in my generation did. Even when around other people in my age group, everyone is disconnected from each other. There's less empathy and relationships in my generation feel more superficial. At any moment, someone will pull out a smartphone and be using social media while literally standing around with a group of supposed friends. I'd say it's the group of people I've hung out with if it weren't for observing the same in the wild many many times. I think we still haven't figured out what all the unintended consequences from technology are going to be, and I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't end up seeing a sharp decline in the birth rate among whites in the US to go along with the increase in younger deaths. Not just because of the consequences of social isolation on mental health, but because the lack of social connectedness that exists today makes it almost impossible to actually procreate.

minikites 10y ago
>remained single most of my life despite my other successes I think the media has a role to play here too, the idea that you need romantic love in order to be successful or complete is a toxic one. Edit: a lot of replies to my comment are misinterpreting what I'm saying as "romance is a new idea invented by the media" when all I said is that it's possible to have a complete and successful life without romance.
- PaulHoule 10y ago
  Plenty of people would get that idea without the media. It is sublime how when you feel lonely you look for a lover and then pretty soon you have more people around. It makes heterosex seem almost subversive these days...
- golergka 10y ago
  This idea have been in place for ages, so I don't think we can connect it to changes that we see.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  Loneliness due to lack of romantic relationships is a real thing.
- supergreg 10y ago
  Do you mean one does not need romantic love to have a relationship or one does not need a relationship at all? The former seems like an archaic idea (arranged marriages for example) while the later I've seen very questioned by society, mostly by older people.
  - VLM 10y ago
    HN is a young people echo chamber, yet not entirely, and I can assure you from personal experience and observation of peers that a successful twenty year marriage involves remarkably little romance, although keeping a little going is nice. I think there's a lot of young people with soon to be broken expectations who think that marriage means every night is romantic date night. Most life is muddling thru.
    - FilterSweep 10y ago
      From a young person's perspective who has seen older coworkers get divorced and observing remarkable fallout from divorce, why get married then? Please don't take the question as an insult, its a query from a young developer who scarcely has relationships longer than a year.
      - VLM 10y ago
        Mostly to raise kids in a stable manner. And the finances are much more stable. You need someone you can have fun with; little league games are not romantic, but are fun. Ditto doing the laundry or yardwork or cooking dinner or whatever. We have similar outlooks on hobby / life / work balance. We're also both descended from 40+ yrs of marriage couples, so the risk of divorce seems much lower.
        nojvek 10y ago
        After moving here, I was quite surprised to see a significant number of my buddies had divorced parents and were totally against marriage.
        10y ago
- tristor 10y ago
  I think that there's certainly some influence from the media on how people perceive how to obtain romantic relationships or how a romantic relationship works. That said, I personally don't consider it a requirement to find romance in order to be or feel successful. I do understand however that society in general somewhat views it that way, and I do feel like I am lacking in that department. For someone who is a bit of a completionist and has managed to do many other things in my life, my lack of romance is definitely somewhat troubling.
- lmm 10y ago
  Interestingly that's a lot less the case in Japanese media IME. E.g. Honey and Clover concludes (spoilers) with Hagu deciding to pursue her art instead of a romantic relationship, which I can't imagine happening in a western movie or tv show.
  - paulcole 10y ago
    Gilmore Girls ended this way.
  - GarvielLoken 10y ago
    Have you seen the movie Whiplash from 2014?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- CPLX 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure we've been hardwired to seek sexual/romantic companionship since long, long, before there was such a thing as "media" or even the written word.
irremediable 10y ago
I'm really unsure of this. I can completely believe it, but I can also believe it's completely incorrect. Maybe it turns out people checking their phone while they're with you is fine -- doesn't hurt social bonding in any way. Some of my shyer friends tell me it's actually helped them thrive in social situations. Whenever they get overwhelmed, they can take shelter with the phone for a bit.
- cableshaft 10y ago
  Before a smartphone, it was a TV. People would turn on the TV and ignore each other just as much as they do now with smartphones, it's just smartphones has made it more portable. That being said, as an introvert, I also agree that it helps me in social situations not to always have to be communicate with people.
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    Having seen people try to talk across laptop screens and across smartphones, there are definitely some settings where the rise of smartphones encourages socialization. It's definitely a tool for introverts, but I hardly ever see phones get in the way of what would otherwise be a fluid, enjoyable conversation. That claim feels more like techphobia than anything, because avoiding awkward, forced conversation is neither novel nor a clear problem.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  It's funny - dealing with people who are under 25, most of them seem to be developing pretty good phone 'hygiene'. Smartphones come out all the time when I'm around my friends, but rarely in an antisocial way, and people who are being rude (not on a phone at a party, but on a phone with a couple of friends) are directly called out. The settings where I see the most "bad" phone use are between acquaintances, or with older demographics where smartphone penetration isn't high enough to generate these etiquette rules. As a result, most of the phone use I see is socially beneficial. People can show an interesting video or look up a fact to keep a conversation rolling, and take shelter in their phones to avoid looking awkward when they have no one to talk to.

by tristor 10y ago

minikites 10y ago

>remained single most of my life despite my other successes I think the media has a role to play here too, the idea that you need romantic love in order to be successful or complete is a toxic one. Edit: a lot of replies to my comment are misinterpreting what I'm saying as "romance is a new idea invented by the media" when all I said is that it's possible to have a complete and successful life without romance.

PaulHoule 10y ago
Plenty of people would get that idea without the media. It is sublime how when you feel lonely you look for a lover and then pretty soon you have more people around. It makes heterosex seem almost subversive these days...
golergka 10y ago
This idea have been in place for ages, so I don't think we can connect it to changes that we see.
enraged_camel 10y ago
Loneliness due to lack of romantic relationships is a real thing.
supergreg 10y ago
Do you mean one does not need romantic love to have a relationship or one does not need a relationship at all? The former seems like an archaic idea (arranged marriages for example) while the later I've seen very questioned by society, mostly by older people.
- VLM 10y ago
  HN is a young people echo chamber, yet not entirely, and I can assure you from personal experience and observation of peers that a successful twenty year marriage involves remarkably little romance, although keeping a little going is nice. I think there's a lot of young people with soon to be broken expectations who think that marriage means every night is romantic date night. Most life is muddling thru.
  - FilterSweep 10y ago
    From a young person's perspective who has seen older coworkers get divorced and observing remarkable fallout from divorce, why get married then? Please don't take the question as an insult, its a query from a young developer who scarcely has relationships longer than a year.
    - VLM 10y ago
      Mostly to raise kids in a stable manner. And the finances are much more stable. You need someone you can have fun with; little league games are not romantic, but are fun. Ditto doing the laundry or yardwork or cooking dinner or whatever. We have similar outlooks on hobby / life / work balance. We're also both descended from 40+ yrs of marriage couples, so the risk of divorce seems much lower.
      - nojvek 10y ago
        After moving here, I was quite surprised to see a significant number of my buddies had divorced parents and were totally against marriage.
      - 10y ago
tristor 10y ago
I think that there's certainly some influence from the media on how people perceive how to obtain romantic relationships or how a romantic relationship works. That said, I personally don't consider it a requirement to find romance in order to be or feel successful. I do understand however that society in general somewhat views it that way, and I do feel like I am lacking in that department. For someone who is a bit of a completionist and has managed to do many other things in my life, my lack of romance is definitely somewhat troubling.
lmm 10y ago
Interestingly that's a lot less the case in Japanese media IME. E.g. Honey and Clover concludes (spoilers) with Hagu deciding to pursue her art instead of a romantic relationship, which I can't imagine happening in a western movie or tv show.
- paulcole 10y ago
  Gilmore Girls ended this way.
- GarvielLoken 10y ago
  Have you seen the movie Whiplash from 2014?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
CPLX 10y ago
I'm pretty sure we've been hardwired to seek sexual/romantic companionship since long, long, before there was such a thing as "media" or even the written word.

irremediable 10y ago

I'm really unsure of this. I can completely believe it, but I can also believe it's completely incorrect. Maybe it turns out people checking their phone while they're with you is fine -- doesn't hurt social bonding in any way. Some of my shyer friends tell me it's actually helped them thrive in social situations. Whenever they get overwhelmed, they can take shelter with the phone for a bit.

cableshaft 10y ago
Before a smartphone, it was a TV. People would turn on the TV and ignore each other just as much as they do now with smartphones, it's just smartphones has made it more portable. That being said, as an introvert, I also agree that it helps me in social situations not to always have to be communicate with people.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  Having seen people try to talk across laptop screens and across smartphones, there are definitely some settings where the rise of smartphones encourages socialization. It's definitely a tool for introverts, but I hardly ever see phones get in the way of what would otherwise be a fluid, enjoyable conversation. That claim feels more like techphobia than anything, because avoiding awkward, forced conversation is neither novel nor a clear problem.
Bartweiss 10y ago
It's funny - dealing with people who are under 25, most of them seem to be developing pretty good phone 'hygiene'. Smartphones come out all the time when I'm around my friends, but rarely in an antisocial way, and people who are being rude (not on a phone at a party, but on a phone with a couple of friends) are directly called out. The settings where I see the most "bad" phone use are between acquaintances, or with older demographics where smartphone penetration isn't high enough to generate these etiquette rules. As a result, most of the phone use I see is socially beneficial. People can show an interesting video or look up a fact to keep a conversation rolling, and take shelter in their phones to avoid looking awkward when they have no one to talk to.