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> More focus and time is spent with family and having experiences that truly enrich one's life. i guess if someone is on basic income then he will not be able

> More focus and time is spent with family and having experiences that truly enrich one's life. i guess if someone is on basic income then he will not be able to afford a family of his own; raising kids is quite expensive. A basic income receiver will also be out of luck if he has to support a member of his family who got into trouble, if your family is unable to be a potential source of security and everyone is alone on his own then the concept of family will become more brittle. To me basic income sounds like a way to create a dependent underclass - very dependent on the state for that matter (and will probably vote for the party that is most likely to continue with the basic income policy - so it will likely be a politically agitated group). And that's not quite conductive to the idea of personal happiness... Basic income is an attempt to deal with a growing number of people who are unemployable in the modern economy. I think a better way would be to find meaningful work for these people - maybe in such areas as caring for disabled and elderly or in education (i think we are out of luck with automating these tasks). This approach would be harder and costs more to implement than just dealing out the welfare checks, so it will probably not be adopted...

lmm 10y ago
> To me basic income sounds like a way to create a dependent underclass - very dependent on the state for that matter (and will probably vote for the party that is most likely to continue with the basic income policy - so it will likely be a politically agitated group). And that's not quite conductive to the idea of personal happiness... We already have that - and it's currently very hard for people on welfare and/or disability to ever pull themselves out of it. With basic income it becomes possible to start working 1 hour a week, then 2, then 3..., without having to worry about losing your benefits or getting in tax trouble. > Basic income is an attempt to deal with a growing number of people who are unemployable in the modern economy. I think a better way would be to find meaningful work for these people - maybe in such areas as caring for disabled and elderly or in education (i think we are out of luck with automating these tasks). If people find those things fulfilling to do themselves, they will do them (and basic income allows them to do it unpaid). If other people want them to do those things, they will pay for it. If no-one wants them to do those things, there's no value in them doing it.
- MichaelMoser123 10y ago
  > If people find those things fulfilling to do themselves, they will do them (and basic income allows them to do it unpaid). If other people want them to do those things, they will pay for it. If no-one wants them to do those things, there's no value in them doing it. So it will bring down salaries - why bother with paying a salary when you can get volunteers on basic income for free? Unpaid work by basic income receivers is an interesting question on its own - on the side of the employee there would be the question of motivation; on the side of the employer there would be questions of reliability - can one trust an unpaid employee to appear at work reliably and in time ?
  - lmm 10y ago
    > So it will bring down salaries - why bother with paying a salary when you can get volunteers on basic income for free? I'd expect it to bring down salaries for fulfilling or enjoyable work (or "work"), while pushing up salaries for less pleasant jobs.
    - MichaelMoser123 10y ago
      Wouldn't that be a source of distortions, like highly qualified people doing very undesirable work, just because of the money?
      - lmm 10y ago
        I think it's not a source but a removal of distortions. If there are a lot of people with PhDs but what society really needs is a few ditch diggers, then it's right that ditch diggers be highly paid. If theoretical research is "difficult" but fun and rewarding and ditch digging is "easy" but boring and stigmatized, it's right that ditch diggers be paid more than researchers - and note that this will also mean more effort is devoted to automating ditch digging than automating research.
        MichaelMoser123 10y ago

lmm 10y ago

> To me basic income sounds like a way to create a dependent underclass - very dependent on the state for that matter (and will probably vote for the party that is most likely to continue with the basic income policy - so it will likely be a politically agitated group). And that's not quite conductive to the idea of personal happiness... We already have that - and it's currently very hard for people on welfare and/or disability to ever pull themselves out of it. With basic income it becomes possible to start working 1 hour a week, then 2, then 3..., without having to worry about losing your benefits or getting in tax trouble. > Basic income is an attempt to deal with a growing number of people who are unemployable in the modern economy. I think a better way would be to find meaningful work for these people - maybe in such areas as caring for disabled and elderly or in education (i think we are out of luck with automating these tasks). If people find those things fulfilling to do themselves, they will do them (and basic income allows them to do it unpaid). If other people want them to do those things, they will pay for it. If no-one wants them to do those things, there's no value in them doing it.

MichaelMoser123 10y ago
> If people find those things fulfilling to do themselves, they will do them (and basic income allows them to do it unpaid). If other people want them to do those things, they will pay for it. If no-one wants them to do those things, there's no value in them doing it. So it will bring down salaries - why bother with paying a salary when you can get volunteers on basic income for free? Unpaid work by basic income receivers is an interesting question on its own - on the side of the employee there would be the question of motivation; on the side of the employer there would be questions of reliability - can one trust an unpaid employee to appear at work reliably and in time ?
- lmm 10y ago
  > So it will bring down salaries - why bother with paying a salary when you can get volunteers on basic income for free? I'd expect it to bring down salaries for fulfilling or enjoyable work (or "work"), while pushing up salaries for less pleasant jobs.
  - MichaelMoser123 10y ago
    Wouldn't that be a source of distortions, like highly qualified people doing very undesirable work, just because of the money?
    - lmm 10y ago
      I think it's not a source but a removal of distortions. If there are a lot of people with PhDs but what society really needs is a few ditch diggers, then it's right that ditch diggers be highly paid. If theoretical research is "difficult" but fun and rewarding and ditch digging is "easy" but boring and stigmatized, it's right that ditch diggers be paid more than researchers - and note that this will also mean more effort is devoted to automating ditch digging than automating research.
      - MichaelMoser123 10y ago