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Throwaway to share my experience with them: I applied in mid-2014 to a software eng position based on encouragement from a recruiter. I went to two onsites wit
by throwaway59511 10y ago
Throwaway to share my experience with them:
I applied in mid-2014 to a software eng position based on encouragement from a recruiter. I went to two onsites with five people in total, each of which passed me to the next round.
They had me come in for a third onsite(!) to meet with CEO James Beriker and some head of engineering. I had admitted to being let go for underperformance to the position I held two jobs ago (was doing fine at my current). I had explained this to each past interviewer who asked. Beriker just seemed to want to have fun with it, asking "well why the heck should I hire someone who's been fired?" He looked at my resume and said, "so, what were you doing between these positions ... oh right, that must have been how long it took you to find a job".
Whenever I asked for clarification on his other questions, he cryptically dismissed it with, "just, whatever you interpret that to mean".
I don't imagine that they're going to get a steady stream of good candidates[1] if they're going to put you through all that and still veto you for something they should have known very early on. I ended up working somewhere else and have gotten a total 35% raise since starting.
I also had an interviewer who did the thing where they get flabbergasted and insistent that you did it wrong because you use the opposite convention from the "official" solution, until you walk through it.
[1] In one interview, I derived the optimal solution to the Dutch Flag Problem despite not having seen the problem before.
- eganist 10y agoHah, I didn't expect my implied criticism (elsewhere in this thread) of a Yahoo VP being hired as their CEO to be so damningly validated by personal experience.
- throwaway59511 10y agoI don't understand. What about Yahoo VPs would lead you to expect the experience I had?
- 808statetaway 10y agoGood rule of thumb is that people from Yahoo or Sun are extremely nonproductive and tend to spend most of their time preparing powerpoint presentations for internal use.
- bcantrill 10y agoIn my experience, the deadwood at Sun actually became deadwood at Oracle; most of the folks who left Sun (disclosure: includes me) were the ones who were drawn to Sun first and foremost by its mission, and since leaving they have gone on to interesting things elsewhere. So while there are certainly companies that are red flags for me, Sun isn't one of them -- and I say this as someone who knows Sun's failings better than most...
- mathattack 10y agoThe purchase was 6+ years ago, and the deadwood is still there?
- bcantrill 10y agoAbsolutely! It is, after all, deadwood -- and given that it's broadly resistant to Oracle's management-by-asphyxiation, it will likely be there for quite some time to come...
- shemnon42 10y agoCan confirm, although the asphyxiation often comes from a level or two up.
- mathattack 10y agoWhat do you mean by "Oracle's management-by-asphyxiation"? And is it that Oracle has such marketplace strength that it can get away with holding the deadwood? I had heard that Oracle was a very competitive place.
- Zelmor 10y ago"Too big to fail" market attitude, I guess.
- 10y ago
- praneshp 10y agoHe was at Yahoo for barely a year and a half.
- yuhong 10y agoLooks like he was bought in as part of the Dapper acquisition: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesberiker https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesberiker
- lukasm 10y agoWhy did you say you were fired for underperformance? Why didn't you say it was a bad fit? Usually, that's the root cause.
- greglindahl 10y agoA smart interviewer doesn't need that to be wordsmithed. I would follow up by asking some questions about what it was about the position or culture or company that didn't work out well.
- blastrat 10y agoso, count on a smart interviewer because if the interviewer is not top notch, you don't want the job? that's throwing your future to the wind.
- yeukhon 10y agoAnother reason I wouldn't not tell the truth is maybe the interviewer knows my ex-colleagues.
- mathattack 10y agoIt also shows courage to fess up to getting fired. As long as there's a good story around it, and some learnings, silicon valley is generally forgiving of short tenures.
- hackinthebochs 10y agoIt's not about lying, but constructing a narrative that paints the facts in a favorable light. Just saying you were fired for underperforming gives you no room to construct a less negative narrative.
- chris_wot 10y agoThat's what politicians do.
- 10y ago
- therealgimli 10y agothere's an interviewing technique among senior execs to take on an aggressive, rude tone to interviewees to "see how they respond under pressure." One way to spot it is if they respond in a contrary way to everything and generally try to pick on you to find chinks in your armor. the first time I experienced it I was pretty shaken up. either that or the person you spoke with is just an asshole.
- smt88 10y agoThey're an asshole either way.
- blakeyrat 10y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRtBvo9grLw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRtBvo9grLw Did he call it "extreme negative feedback"?
- dctoedt 10y ago> there's an interviewing technique among senior execs to take on an aggressive, rude tone to interviewees to "see how they respond under pressure." Sounds like wannabes trying to imitate Admiral Rickover's interview style for the Navy's nuclear-propulsion program [0]. Forty-plus years on I can still recite my interview with the Kindly Old Gentleman [sic] practically verbatim. [0] E.g., http://the-military-guide.com/sea-story-the-admiral-rickover-interview/ http://the-military-guide.com/sea-story-the-admiral-rickover...
- toomuchtodo 10y agoSidenote: Rickover is the reason we don't use Thorium reactors today. So sorry you had to interact with him.
- ThenAsNow 10y agoWhat a character. His famous Columbia University speech from '82 (excerpts: http://govleaders.org/rickover.htm http://govleaders.org/rickover.htm ) contains a quite a bit of wisdom that, whatever his flaws may be, is still quite poignant, valid, and something which people in program management and government circles should internalize. The word "controversial" is used a lot with respect to Rickover, but that word is so clichéd today that virtually anyone that gets things done can be so labeled. However, Rickover truly seems to deserve that categorization. Beyond the Wikipedia article and "Rickover: Controversy and Genius", are there any other sources you and dctoedt would recommend to learn more about him? Fanboyism toward Steve Jobs causes me to reflexively cringe because of the extent to which the ends were viewed as justifying the means in his management philosophy. Not to mention something approaching a sadistic streak. It would seem that a similar lens should apply toward Rickover.
- mathattack 10y agoThere is an enormous irony in a Recruiting SaaS company being so bad at recruiting.
- godzillabrennus 10y agoIt epitomizes the industry.
- mathattack 10y agoIn a sense it hits all industries. Accenture would put in HR and ERP systems for companies all across the world, but their own were notoriously bad. Microsoft was infamous for patchwork internal IT. Investment banks are notorious for weak internal financial controls. We've all seen doctors who smoke or abuse drugs.
- DINKDINK 10y ago>gotten a total 35% raise since starting Relatively meaningless percentage if you don't state over what time period. One could ballpark the minimum %/time.
- throwaway99af 10y agoCouple of comments, It was rare that the CEO would reject people, but it happened occasionally, much to the interviewers delight \s. Sometimes he just wanted to 'leave his mark' I guess. I actually doubt that the 'flabbergasted' response was an act.
- burn11335577 10y agoIt isn't typical for them to have multiple separate on-site sessions for non-management/director position. They were tossing you around trying to see if you could fit anywhere. I'm sorry you had to go through that.