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I think I would be too, which is why I asked. Do you have any concrete examples of such a market? I mean, I put one right in my comment. How else do you do t

I think I would be too, which is why I asked. Do you have any concrete examples of such a market? I mean, I put one right in my comment. How else do you do this sort of thing? EDIT: I'm not trying to call you out, I just want to know how these things are done. Being on HN, I've seen stolen credit card marketplaces and things like that. Do people put their welfare payments on something like that? Do you have resources like that?

ufmace 10y ago
What would a concrete example look like to you? They don't do these things on the internet or with apps, it's all face-to-face and word of mouth. I wouldn't bet on there being any academic studies of it either. Likely all we'll ever have is personal anecdotes from people who have been involved in these communities and somehow ended up spending much more time on the internet than is the norm there.
- phjesusthatguy3 10y ago
  Someone else pointed out googling "tide as currency", and that opened my eyes. It made me realize that people doing this are working with pointers, not values.
  - gertef 10y ago
    All currency is a "pointer", not "value". That's the purpose of currency.
diydsp 10y ago
Try googling things like "food stamps black market"... It happens, but it's only about 1%. How much time and effort should we spend trying to eradicate that last 1% of fraud? [1] http://www.ktnv.com/news/busted-black-market-food-stamps http://www.ktnv.com/news/busted-black-market-food-stamps [2] http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/19/food-stamp-black-market-rise/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/19/food-stamp-b... [3] http://thoughtfulwomen.org/2012/10/16/black-market-for-food-stamps-is-alive-and-well/ http://thoughtfulwomen.org/2012/10/16/black-market-for-food-... [4] http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/investigation-uncovers-people-selling-taxpayer-funded-food-stamps/ http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/investigation-unco... [5] http://articles.philly.com/1994-06-02/news/25833443_1_food-stamps-food-stamp-program-financial-exchange http://articles.philly.com/1994-06-02/news/25833443_1_food-s...
- DrScump 10y ago
  Did you read #3? "sales of Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program vouchers brought in $858 million in cash in the 2009-2011 period" That's almost $300M/year just for SNAP benefits. $300M here, $300M there, and pretty soon, you're talking real money.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> on HN, I've seen stolen credit card marketplaces and things like that. Do people put their welfare payments on something like that? Sometimes, yes, people sell EBT cards online (a quick googling finds numerous reports of this being done on Craigslist and Facebook.) Othertimes, they convert benefits to concrete goods, which are then sold at below-market prices to convert into cash to by things that would not be allowed by the benefit program (or traded directly for other goods, with the seller of the other goods either using the traded goods or selling them for cash.)
- phjesusthatguy3 10y ago
  Yep, I did some reading since my original post and came to the conclusion I'm just naive.

ufmace 10y ago

What would a concrete example look like to you? They don't do these things on the internet or with apps, it's all face-to-face and word of mouth. I wouldn't bet on there being any academic studies of it either. Likely all we'll ever have is personal anecdotes from people who have been involved in these communities and somehow ended up spending much more time on the internet than is the norm there.

phjesusthatguy3 10y ago
Someone else pointed out googling "tide as currency", and that opened my eyes. It made me realize that people doing this are working with pointers, not values.
- gertef 10y ago
  All currency is a "pointer", not "value". That's the purpose of currency.

diydsp 10y ago

Try googling things like "food stamps black market"... It happens, but it's only about 1%. How much time and effort should we spend trying to eradicate that last 1% of fraud? [1] http://www.ktnv.com/news/busted-black-market-food-stamps http://www.ktnv.com/news/busted-black-market-food-stamps [2] http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/19/food-stamp-black-market-rise/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/19/food-stamp-b... [3] http://thoughtfulwomen.org/2012/10/16/black-market-for-food-stamps-is-alive-and-well/ http://thoughtfulwomen.org/2012/10/16/black-market-for-food-... [4] http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/investigation-uncovers-people-selling-taxpayer-funded-food-stamps/ http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/investigation-unco... [5] http://articles.philly.com/1994-06-02/news/25833443_1_food-stamps-food-stamp-program-financial-exchange http://articles.philly.com/1994-06-02/news/25833443_1_food-s...

DrScump 10y ago
Did you read #3? "sales of Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program vouchers brought in $858 million in cash in the 2009-2011 period" That's almost $300M/year just for SNAP benefits. $300M here, $300M there, and pretty soon, you're talking real money.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> on HN, I've seen stolen credit card marketplaces and things like that. Do people put their welfare payments on something like that? Sometimes, yes, people sell EBT cards online (a quick googling finds numerous reports of this being done on Craigslist and Facebook.) Othertimes, they convert benefits to concrete goods, which are then sold at below-market prices to convert into cash to by things that would not be allowed by the benefit program (or traded directly for other goods, with the seller of the other goods either using the traded goods or selling them for cash.)

phjesusthatguy3 10y ago
Yep, I did some reading since my original post and came to the conclusion I'm just naive.