4 ms·

When I worked in Germany, I had to give _3 months_ notice. (It was related to leaving at the end of the quarter, but I don't recall the details). It made for a

by sjf 17y ago

When I worked in Germany, I had to give _3 months_ notice. (It was related to leaving at the end of the quarter, but I don't recall the details). It made for a very uncomfortable atmosphere. I can't imagine what the reasoning was, maybe just that it simplified things for some bureaucrat somewhere in HR.

biafra 17y ago
3 month to end of the quarter was more common in past in germany. And it goes both ways. Its actually to protect you as an employee. Its a contract thing. If you had wanted you could have changed that before signing. But its not unusual for reasons mentioned in this thread to let people go earlier. But both sides have to agree to that. Usually a pay-off is involved when youre fired and asked to leave erlier.
brown9-2 17y ago
Can you elaborate on the "had to" part? i.e., was it a contractual thing, a legal thing, or just an accepted practice? Or a request from your previous company which they wouldn't budge on?
- sjf 17y ago
  It was in my contract.
- trin_ 17y ago
  its something called "Kündigungsschutz". most contracts have these clauses and they are often effective after some kind of trial period (usually 3-6 months, depending on job and experience). its a measure to support the employee but it works both ways.
  - biafra 17y ago
    "Kündigungsschutz" (employment protection) is actually something different. It basically means you can't be fired except for one of three reasons: 1. Reasons in your behavior. For instance, if you steal from the company. 2. Reasons in your person. For instance you have developed a back-problem and can't do your job anymore. 3. Reasons within the company. Like restructuring eliminates the job you were doing. And this reason also requires that the employer has to prove that you cannot work at a different place in the company. If the company wants to fire a lot of people for financial reasons it has to be "sozialverträglich" (socially acceptable) which means employees with children and older employees can't be fired unless all younger employees without kids are also fired. There are exceptions. It is actually quite hard to fire someone in Germany, who wants to stay. It takes years and if the employer loses in court he has to pay the salary for the time of the judicial proceeding plus the employee is still not fired. Because of this risk and the associated costs for the employer it is common to have some compensation payed to the employee. Its usually about half of his current monthly salary (before tax) times the years he was in the company. The employment protection is not negotiable but the "Kündigungsfrist" (period of notice) is, to a certain degree. I think 1 month is the minimum. Employment protection is applicable if the company has more that 10 employees and the contract is indefinite. Fixed term contracts are only possible for at most 2 years. After that the employment becomes indefinite automatically. Here is a long version in english: http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/ifpdial/info/termination/countries/germany.htm http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/ifpdial/info/term...
    - happenstance 17y ago
      > It is actually quite hard to fire someone in Germany, who wants to stay. Wow. In the USA, companies can basically fire anyone for any reason at any time (in my experience). And getting fired usually happens very quickly -- as in, that instant: "Please pick up your things and come with me. No, don't touch the computer, someone else will log you out."
      - biafra 17y ago
        The minimum one month notice does not mean you see your desk again, it just means you will be paid at least for one more month (plus what is reached in the settlement). But an employee that really wants to stay can be on payroll for quite some time. But he cannot work for another company during that time. He has to be available. But most people, I think, take the severance pay and move on. I did.
        happenstance 17y ago
        I don't really know what you mean by "settlement". There's no settlement that I know of when you get fired in the USA. Here, a "settlement" is something you might get if you were to sue someone for something and the court awarded you money.
        biafra 17y ago
        My bad english. I meant severance pay. I was still talking about Germany.
        happenstance 17y ago
        Ah. In the states, you only get severance if you're laid off. If you're fired, I don't think there's any severance pay involved. Also, in the states, if you're laid off, you can apply for "unemployment benefits" from the state. If you're fired, you cannot.
    - yummyfajitas 17y ago
- zupatol 17y ago
  We have this too in Switzerland. If a separation period is not mentioned in the contract it's automatically 2 months (or 3 I don't remember). If you get fired, the company has to tell you the same number of months in advance.

by sjf 17y ago

biafra 17y ago

3 month to end of the quarter was more common in past in germany. And it goes both ways. Its actually to protect you as an employee. Its a contract thing. If you had wanted you could have changed that before signing. But its not unusual for reasons mentioned in this thread to let people go earlier. But both sides have to agree to that. Usually a pay-off is involved when youre fired and asked to leave erlier.

brown9-2 17y ago

Can you elaborate on the "had to" part? i.e., was it a contractual thing, a legal thing, or just an accepted practice? Or a request from your previous company which they wouldn't budge on?

sjf 17y ago
It was in my contract.
trin_ 17y ago
its something called "Kündigungsschutz". most contracts have these clauses and they are often effective after some kind of trial period (usually 3-6 months, depending on job and experience). its a measure to support the employee but it works both ways.
- biafra 17y ago
  "Kündigungsschutz" (employment protection) is actually something different. It basically means you can't be fired except for one of three reasons: 1. Reasons in your behavior. For instance, if you steal from the company. 2. Reasons in your person. For instance you have developed a back-problem and can't do your job anymore. 3. Reasons within the company. Like restructuring eliminates the job you were doing. And this reason also requires that the employer has to prove that you cannot work at a different place in the company. If the company wants to fire a lot of people for financial reasons it has to be "sozialverträglich" (socially acceptable) which means employees with children and older employees can't be fired unless all younger employees without kids are also fired. There are exceptions. It is actually quite hard to fire someone in Germany, who wants to stay. It takes years and if the employer loses in court he has to pay the salary for the time of the judicial proceeding plus the employee is still not fired. Because of this risk and the associated costs for the employer it is common to have some compensation payed to the employee. Its usually about half of his current monthly salary (before tax) times the years he was in the company. The employment protection is not negotiable but the "Kündigungsfrist" (period of notice) is, to a certain degree. I think 1 month is the minimum. Employment protection is applicable if the company has more that 10 employees and the contract is indefinite. Fixed term contracts are only possible for at most 2 years. After that the employment becomes indefinite automatically. Here is a long version in english: http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/ifpdial/info/termination/countries/germany.htm http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/ifpdial/info/term...
  - happenstance 17y ago
    > It is actually quite hard to fire someone in Germany, who wants to stay. Wow. In the USA, companies can basically fire anyone for any reason at any time (in my experience). And getting fired usually happens very quickly -- as in, that instant: "Please pick up your things and come with me. No, don't touch the computer, someone else will log you out."
    - biafra 17y ago
      The minimum one month notice does not mean you see your desk again, it just means you will be paid at least for one more month (plus what is reached in the settlement). But an employee that really wants to stay can be on payroll for quite some time. But he cannot work for another company during that time. He has to be available. But most people, I think, take the severance pay and move on. I did.
      - happenstance 17y ago
        I don't really know what you mean by "settlement". There's no settlement that I know of when you get fired in the USA. Here, a "settlement" is something you might get if you were to sue someone for something and the court awarded you money.
        biafra 17y ago
        My bad english. I meant severance pay. I was still talking about Germany.
        happenstance 17y ago
        Ah. In the states, you only get severance if you're laid off. If you're fired, I don't think there's any severance pay involved. Also, in the states, if you're laid off, you can apply for "unemployment benefits" from the state. If you're fired, you cannot.
  - yummyfajitas 17y ago
zupatol 17y ago
We have this too in Switzerland. If a separation period is not mentioned in the contract it's automatically 2 months (or 3 I don't remember). If you get fired, the company has to tell you the same number of months in advance.