3 ms·

> Almost all of the _basic_ needs of a human, i.e. those that we received 50,000 years ago, could be provided for $1-$2k a year Can you explain this? Basic nee

> Almost all of the _basic_ needs of a human, i.e. those that we received 50,000 years ago, could be provided for $1-$2k a year Can you explain this? Basic needs include shelter, clothing, and food, which together cost much more than $1-$2k.

kauffj 10y ago
A tent, a pair or two of clothing, and meals of rice/beans/vegetables can be provided for less than $2k/year. A life comparable to this, but requiring more work, has been and continues to be lived by hundreds of millions.
- acgourley 10y ago
  We are forced us to decide if forward progress alongside our neighbors is a moral right.
- Yen 10y ago
  > [basic necessities] can be provided for less than $2k/year. I'm going to assume that this means "provided for approximately $2k/year". In any case, the value of that number isn't an argument against UBI, but rather, the amount UBI should be set at. Maybe the right value is $2k/person/year. > Basic needs? Everyone in America has their basic needs. Given that there are adults in the U.S.A. who earn less than $2k/year, there must be people who are either not getting their basic needs met, or are getting them met only through welfare programs. > A tent, a pair or two of clothing, and meals of rice/beans/vegetables Assuming this was the minimum, you also need a plot of land in which you can legally stake your tent - a pretty big problem for homeless today. The rent on this land also factors in to the necessary price per person per year. In my personal opinion, I'd say the full set of human needs includes food, shelter, hygiene, health care, companionship, and the opportunity for self-improvement/advancement. Food and shelter you've covered, companionship can be free, and hygiene doesn't have to cost much of anything. In our current society, an opportunity for self-improvement depends on education, reasonable transportation to economically viable areas, and communication technology (such as phone or internet). None of these things are necessarily extremely expensive, at the bare-bones, no-luxuries level. The overall cost might be a little more than $2k/person/year, it isn't necessarily as high as $10k/person/year. In any case, I expect that providing someone who doesn't have these things (food, shelter, hygiene, and opportunity for self-improvement) will cause an non-zero-sum increase in happiness, and right now, there are people who don't have all of these things.

kauffj 10y ago

A tent, a pair or two of clothing, and meals of rice/beans/vegetables can be provided for less than $2k/year. A life comparable to this, but requiring more work, has been and continues to be lived by hundreds of millions.

acgourley 10y ago
We are forced us to decide if forward progress alongside our neighbors is a moral right.
Yen 10y ago
> [basic necessities] can be provided for less than $2k/year. I'm going to assume that this means "provided for approximately $2k/year". In any case, the value of that number isn't an argument against UBI, but rather, the amount UBI should be set at. Maybe the right value is $2k/person/year. > Basic needs? Everyone in America has their basic needs. Given that there are adults in the U.S.A. who earn less than $2k/year, there must be people who are either not getting their basic needs met, or are getting them met only through welfare programs. > A tent, a pair or two of clothing, and meals of rice/beans/vegetables Assuming this was the minimum, you also need a plot of land in which you can legally stake your tent - a pretty big problem for homeless today. The rent on this land also factors in to the necessary price per person per year. In my personal opinion, I'd say the full set of human needs includes food, shelter, hygiene, health care, companionship, and the opportunity for self-improvement/advancement. Food and shelter you've covered, companionship can be free, and hygiene doesn't have to cost much of anything. In our current society, an opportunity for self-improvement depends on education, reasonable transportation to economically viable areas, and communication technology (such as phone or internet). None of these things are necessarily extremely expensive, at the bare-bones, no-luxuries level. The overall cost might be a little more than $2k/person/year, it isn't necessarily as high as $10k/person/year. In any case, I expect that providing someone who doesn't have these things (food, shelter, hygiene, and opportunity for self-improvement) will cause an non-zero-sum increase in happiness, and right now, there are people who don't have all of these things.