7 ms·

> "Won't inflation, as well as increased demand for the things people need just raise prices of those things out of reach of those on the floor negating any ben

> "Won't inflation, as well as increased demand for the things people need just raise prices of those things out of reach of those on the floor negating any benefit?" Ideally you'd want UBI to increase with inflation. However, as the initial study is over 5 years the decrease in purchasing power by the end of the study is likely to be minimal. There is a risk that companies that service low-income people will increase their prices faster than inflation, negating some of the benefits of UBI. The only guard I know of for this is strong competition and disciplined consumers, people have to be willing to express their dislike of price hikes by shopping elsewhere otherwise the system won't work. I'm guessing that monitoring price rises will be part of this YC-backed study.

stcredzero 10y ago
There is a risk that companies that service low-income people will increase their prices faster than inflation, negating some of the benefits of UBI. The only guard I know of for this is strong competition and disciplined consumers, people have to be willing to express their dislike of price hikes by shopping elsewhere otherwise the system won't work. There are places where people don't have enough mobility to be able to do this. EDIT: One of the interns at the non-profit I volunteer at landed a job, but had to give it up because he didn't have transportation that could reliably get him to his job. (Late shift.) He lives in Oakland.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  > "There are places where people don't have enough mobility to be able to do this." That's where Internet shopping comes in. Ideally you want to support local businesses to keep jobs in the area, but if you need to fight against price hikes and can't do so locally then the best thing to do is shop online until the price hikes are reduced.
  - runako 10y ago
    The irony here is that it's well-documented that the poorest are also generally the least equipped to take advantage of the best deals (online or otherwise). Lack of a credit card, inability to purchase in bulk ("bulk" to someone with meager financial resources might not appear to be "bulk" to you), no Internet at home, unreliable transportation, are all reasons people are not able to shop online or at places like Costco.
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      Traditionally yes, but there are options. If the individual is too poor to have any Internet-capable device (can use free WiFi to buy things, though I recognise this is a security risk unless you're tech savvy) then there are ways to save money through community action (pooling resources to buy in bulk, etc...). It's more a question of organisation and discipline rather than opportunity, though it's certainly harder than only having to rely on your own initiative.
      - stcredzero 10y ago
        there are ways to save money through community action (pooling resources to buy in bulk, etc...). It's more a question of organisation and discipline rather than opportunity, though it's certainly harder than only having to rely on your own initiative. Sounds like a good project to benefit those lower on the socioeconomic ladder.
Sacho 10y ago
> The only guard I know of for this is strong competition and disciplined consumers, people have to be willing to express their dislike of price hikes by shopping elsewhere otherwise the system won't work. Why would you need BI if that existed in the first place? Then people would have the discipline to not work shitty jobs and strong competition would provide them the work they want! What has BI solved, then?
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  > "Why would you need BI if that existed in the first place? Then people would have the discipline to not work shitty jobs and strong competition would provide them the work they want! What has BI solved, then?" The desire to eat trumps the desire for a better job. If you tie people's choices to their need to survive, you are going to interfere with what people would choose that serves their best interests. Amongst other things, UBI tackles this issue.

stcredzero 10y ago

There is a risk that companies that service low-income people will increase their prices faster than inflation, negating some of the benefits of UBI. The only guard I know of for this is strong competition and disciplined consumers, people have to be willing to express their dislike of price hikes by shopping elsewhere otherwise the system won't work. There are places where people don't have enough mobility to be able to do this. EDIT: One of the interns at the non-profit I volunteer at landed a job, but had to give it up because he didn't have transportation that could reliably get him to his job. (Late shift.) He lives in Oakland.

ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "There are places where people don't have enough mobility to be able to do this." That's where Internet shopping comes in. Ideally you want to support local businesses to keep jobs in the area, but if you need to fight against price hikes and can't do so locally then the best thing to do is shop online until the price hikes are reduced.
- runako 10y ago
  The irony here is that it's well-documented that the poorest are also generally the least equipped to take advantage of the best deals (online or otherwise). Lack of a credit card, inability to purchase in bulk ("bulk" to someone with meager financial resources might not appear to be "bulk" to you), no Internet at home, unreliable transportation, are all reasons people are not able to shop online or at places like Costco.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    Traditionally yes, but there are options. If the individual is too poor to have any Internet-capable device (can use free WiFi to buy things, though I recognise this is a security risk unless you're tech savvy) then there are ways to save money through community action (pooling resources to buy in bulk, etc...). It's more a question of organisation and discipline rather than opportunity, though it's certainly harder than only having to rely on your own initiative.
    - stcredzero 10y ago
      there are ways to save money through community action (pooling resources to buy in bulk, etc...). It's more a question of organisation and discipline rather than opportunity, though it's certainly harder than only having to rely on your own initiative. Sounds like a good project to benefit those lower on the socioeconomic ladder.

Sacho 10y ago

> The only guard I know of for this is strong competition and disciplined consumers, people have to be willing to express their dislike of price hikes by shopping elsewhere otherwise the system won't work. Why would you need BI if that existed in the first place? Then people would have the discipline to not work shitty jobs and strong competition would provide them the work they want! What has BI solved, then?

ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "Why would you need BI if that existed in the first place? Then people would have the discipline to not work shitty jobs and strong competition would provide them the work they want! What has BI solved, then?" The desire to eat trumps the desire for a better job. If you tie people's choices to their need to survive, you are going to interfere with what people would choose that serves their best interests. Amongst other things, UBI tackles this issue.