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Why do they not talk about the tax increase that pays for it? It's supposed to be closer to neutral. I.e. people making $100k get an extra $10k tax burden to ca

Why do they not talk about the tax increase that pays for it? It's supposed to be closer to neutral. I.e. people making $100k get an extra $10k tax burden to cancel out the $10k they just got. Pretty important factor to include in the discussion, yeah?

sharemywin 10y ago
obviously someone else is going to have to pay for people making under 10k.
- vehementi 10y ago
  Yes. Obviously. So the "cost of UBI" is clearly not $10k times (number of humans in the USA), but more like $10k times (number of eligible people making under $10k). The article omitting this pretty important thing basically discredits it and probably its parent site
  - mason240 10y ago
    >So the "cost of UBI" is clearly not $10k times (number of humans in the USA), but more like $10k times (number of eligible people making under $10k). It is "$10k times (number of humans in the USA)," because the "number of eligible people" IS the number of humans in the USA.
    - drabiega 10y ago
      You left out the "making under $10k" part, which is the whole point.
      - mason240 10y ago
        I didn't leave it out because UBI isn't means tested or income based.
        vehementi 10y ago
        They're not explicitly eligible, but rather implicitly eligible, because of the tax increase on the top end to cancel out the $10k they don't need and to pay for any gap that still needs closing after we redirect money from existing systems. The people who as a result of this policy and the taxes net money is small, and that is the real cost. Not $3T which is a bald faced lie.
grahamburger 10y ago
Don't they actually get more like an extra 30-50k burden to cancel out the 10k they got and pay 10k to several other people?
- vehementi 10y ago
  The people who make under 10k outnumber the people making good money by a factor of 3-5?
  - grahamburger 10y ago
    I'm not sure that's the right ratio to look at - someone making under 10k isn't going to pay taxes at all. The average income in the US is just over 50k - I would expect that's about the income where your UBI would be 1 for 1 - your taxes go up 10k and you get 10k from UBI.

sharemywin 10y ago

obviously someone else is going to have to pay for people making under 10k.

vehementi 10y ago
Yes. Obviously. So the "cost of UBI" is clearly not $10k times (number of humans in the USA), but more like $10k times (number of eligible people making under $10k). The article omitting this pretty important thing basically discredits it and probably its parent site
- mason240 10y ago
  >So the "cost of UBI" is clearly not $10k times (number of humans in the USA), but more like $10k times (number of eligible people making under $10k). It is "$10k times (number of humans in the USA)," because the "number of eligible people" IS the number of humans in the USA.
  - drabiega 10y ago
    You left out the "making under $10k" part, which is the whole point.
    - mason240 10y ago
      I didn't leave it out because UBI isn't means tested or income based.
      - vehementi 10y ago
        They're not explicitly eligible, but rather implicitly eligible, because of the tax increase on the top end to cancel out the $10k they don't need and to pay for any gap that still needs closing after we redirect money from existing systems. The people who as a result of this policy and the taxes net money is small, and that is the real cost. Not $3T which is a bald faced lie.

grahamburger 10y ago

Don't they actually get more like an extra 30-50k burden to cancel out the 10k they got and pay 10k to several other people?

vehementi 10y ago
The people who make under 10k outnumber the people making good money by a factor of 3-5?
- grahamburger 10y ago
  I'm not sure that's the right ratio to look at - someone making under 10k isn't going to pay taxes at all. The average income in the US is just over 50k - I would expect that's about the income where your UBI would be 1 for 1 - your taxes go up 10k and you get 10k from UBI.