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So it has leds. Is this enough to get kids interested in computers and programming? I have the feeling that they would need something where the distance betwee

So it has leds. Is this enough to get kids interested in computers and programming? I have the feeling that they would need something where the distance between what they can do as users and as developers is much smaller. Otherwise they still may not see it as "the same thing". The iPad will still be an opaque thing they use to consume content. I'm coming from growing up in the 80s with a ZX Spectrum. The distance between users and developers was so much smaller - you turned on the Spectrum and landed on a BASIC interpreter. A device that "has leds" and you need to program using some IDE outside of the device fails to convey the idea that "using" and "programming" are not separate things, but different points of a continuous spectrum (pun not intended). I'm all for demystifying programming and computers for kids. There's this false belief that kids nowadays are "so good with tech" because they're 4 and they an use an iPad, but makes kids no better at tech than using a remote control makes them good at cinematography. Maybe what we need is more like the Spectrum Next? http://www.specnext.com http://www.specnext.com EDIT: This may be closer to what I have in mind: http://uk.kano.me/products/kano-kit http://uk.kano.me/products/kano-kit

stinos 10y ago
you turned on the Spectrum and landed on a BASIC interpreter. A device that "has leds" and you need to program using some IDE outside of the device I think (not 100% sure though, but also see other comments and https://github.com/ntoll/microrepl https://github.com/ntoll/microrepl) it can run micropython so that means you turn it on, run something to connect to it on the client and it drops you to a REPL. Not exactly the same principle as with the ZX but pretty close.
digi_owl 10y ago
> Maybe what we need is more like the Spectrum Next? http://www.specnext.com http://www.specnext.com Yet another site that shows crap all without JS enabled... Anyways, the Ello M2 recently popped up on my RSS reader. https://www.crowdsupply.com/knivd/ello-2m https://www.crowdsupply.com/knivd/ello-2m It seems very much in tune with the early micros.
kazinator 10y ago
> fails to convey the idea that "using" and "programming" are not separate things Bravo. It just makes no sense: in 1980 you could have a tiny device you could program on that device itself. In 2016, you have to use a PC with an IDE, without which it is just a brick. Where is the progress? An interactive programming language on that phone or tablet is better. On the other hand, this separation between using and programming is good for teaching embedded development; but the focus of that should be the surrounding tinkering: we program the device, and it fits into some context where it does something on its own as part of something else. The program isn't the whole project, and the device isn't the whole system. It doesn't have to be either/or; an embedded device can be interactively programmable somehow. As far as hooking up to a PC goes, there should be a dumb serial interface, which is just a way to have a better keyboard and bigger screen: but all the interaction going on within the device rather than "build image, upload, flash, reboot".
yitchelle 10y ago
I agree with you. For a kid, this is not a computer. It is a bit of green plastic thing that blinks. You even need a "real" computer to get it do something on it. Maybe, we can load this thing up with something that will boot up into Basic, Logo, or Pascal. All the kid have to do is connect a monitor and keyboard to it. I grew up using an Atari 800 with a cassette tape drive connected to my TV. I switched it on and have fun coding.

stinos 10y ago

you turned on the Spectrum and landed on a BASIC interpreter. A device that "has leds" and you need to program using some IDE outside of the device I think (not 100% sure though, but also see other comments and https://github.com/ntoll/microrepl https://github.com/ntoll/microrepl) it can run micropython so that means you turn it on, run something to connect to it on the client and it drops you to a REPL. Not exactly the same principle as with the ZX but pretty close.

digi_owl 10y ago

> Maybe what we need is more like the Spectrum Next? http://www.specnext.com http://www.specnext.com Yet another site that shows crap all without JS enabled... Anyways, the Ello M2 recently popped up on my RSS reader. https://www.crowdsupply.com/knivd/ello-2m https://www.crowdsupply.com/knivd/ello-2m It seems very much in tune with the early micros.

kazinator 10y ago

> fails to convey the idea that "using" and "programming" are not separate things Bravo. It just makes no sense: in 1980 you could have a tiny device you could program on that device itself. In 2016, you have to use a PC with an IDE, without which it is just a brick. Where is the progress? An interactive programming language on that phone or tablet is better. On the other hand, this separation between using and programming is good for teaching embedded development; but the focus of that should be the surrounding tinkering: we program the device, and it fits into some context where it does something on its own as part of something else. The program isn't the whole project, and the device isn't the whole system. It doesn't have to be either/or; an embedded device can be interactively programmable somehow. As far as hooking up to a PC goes, there should be a dumb serial interface, which is just a way to have a better keyboard and bigger screen: but all the interaction going on within the device rather than "build image, upload, flash, reboot".

yitchelle 10y ago

I agree with you. For a kid, this is not a computer. It is a bit of green plastic thing that blinks. You even need a "real" computer to get it do something on it. Maybe, we can load this thing up with something that will boot up into Basic, Logo, or Pascal. All the kid have to do is connect a monitor and keyboard to it. I grew up using an Atari 800 with a cassette tape drive connected to my TV. I switched it on and have fun coding.