5 ms·

I'm sure a lot of consumer implementations come to mind pretty quickly for most, but this could be really huge for accessibility... if you could say, train gest

I'm sure a lot of consumer implementations come to mind pretty quickly for most, but this could be really huge for accessibility... if you could say, train gestures tailored to the very specific nuances of a person's available range of motion. Avoiding the limitations tied to physical hardware would be huge.

Aelinsaar 10y ago
I wonder if this could be used for some kind of modified eye/eyelid tracking?
- awesomerobot 10y ago
  That could be interesting, eye tracking is often expensive and can require a "just-right" type of setting. Reducing that barrier can be huge for many. I think outside of a single solution like eye-tracking there's a lot of room for a device like this to be much more adaptable to a broad range of conditions. There's so much variation of how physical symptoms can present, even within a single disease, that it can be really difficult (and expensive) to customize hardware for an individual... and degenerative diseases can take constant readjustment and new hardware. The hardware barrier seems endlessly frustrating — you have an off-the-shelf device like a joystick/keyboard/mouse that was originally designed for hands, being used by feet and with mouths... ...a good example of hardware reduction making a meaningful impact was the advent of reliable portable touchscreens — people could actually start directly touching the interface without some of the ergonomic constraints of a mouse and keyboard. You can reliably surf the web on an iPad using your nose. Imagine trying to do the same with an off-the-shelf joystick or mouse.
melling 10y ago
It could also be huge for ergonomics. Many people develop RSI issues through repeated keyboard and mouse usage. People have as gone as far as using their nose as an input device: http://www.looknohands.me http://www.looknohands.me There are lots of other RSI stories here: https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/README.org https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/README...
- awesomerobot 10y ago
  Exactly. An unintended result of the advent of reliable/portable touch devices was the reduction in physical hardware input. Instead of clamping down a joystick to a desk and moving it around with your face... or looking away from content to type on a keyboard with your nose... you can buy an off-the-shelf product and use it on just about any solid surface. The iPad was huge for people with limited limb control.
- azinman2 10y ago
  It'll shift to RSI doing these gestures instead. They're still fine motor control which is what's involved in RSI. Notice how runners don't get RSI in their legs but pianists do. Background: I have RSI and have battled it for 15 years now. There's a lot that's mental and nervous system, and can easily shift in the body (almost gave myself RSI in my throat and eyes doing voice rec and eye tracking to avoid typing).
  - awesomerobot 10y ago
    Right, but if there's flexibility to change the specific inputs... maybe you can change motions when/if they're becoming a problem? Or maybe people should work less?
    - azinman2 10y ago
      Anything fine motor, even if the motions are changed, will inevitably cause problems. The duration doesn't have to be that long -- I could feel the fatigue in my eyes with eye tracking after just 30-40 minutes. The irony of course is that my eyes are doing fine motor control all the time, but when you do it as part of a control-loop then _something_ (neuromuscular?) will cause you to go into RSI mode and you fatigue quickly. If you don't pause for the fatigue you can do permanent damage -- which is what happened to my hands on the most non-ergonomic Apple Newton keyboard. I use fine motor control for pleasure, not just work.

Aelinsaar 10y ago

I wonder if this could be used for some kind of modified eye/eyelid tracking?

awesomerobot 10y ago
That could be interesting, eye tracking is often expensive and can require a "just-right" type of setting. Reducing that barrier can be huge for many. I think outside of a single solution like eye-tracking there's a lot of room for a device like this to be much more adaptable to a broad range of conditions. There's so much variation of how physical symptoms can present, even within a single disease, that it can be really difficult (and expensive) to customize hardware for an individual... and degenerative diseases can take constant readjustment and new hardware. The hardware barrier seems endlessly frustrating — you have an off-the-shelf device like a joystick/keyboard/mouse that was originally designed for hands, being used by feet and with mouths... ...a good example of hardware reduction making a meaningful impact was the advent of reliable portable touchscreens — people could actually start directly touching the interface without some of the ergonomic constraints of a mouse and keyboard. You can reliably surf the web on an iPad using your nose. Imagine trying to do the same with an off-the-shelf joystick or mouse.

melling 10y ago

It could also be huge for ergonomics. Many people develop RSI issues through repeated keyboard and mouse usage. People have as gone as far as using their nose as an input device: http://www.looknohands.me http://www.looknohands.me There are lots of other RSI stories here: https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/README.org https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/README...

awesomerobot 10y ago
Exactly. An unintended result of the advent of reliable/portable touch devices was the reduction in physical hardware input. Instead of clamping down a joystick to a desk and moving it around with your face... or looking away from content to type on a keyboard with your nose... you can buy an off-the-shelf product and use it on just about any solid surface. The iPad was huge for people with limited limb control.
azinman2 10y ago
It'll shift to RSI doing these gestures instead. They're still fine motor control which is what's involved in RSI. Notice how runners don't get RSI in their legs but pianists do. Background: I have RSI and have battled it for 15 years now. There's a lot that's mental and nervous system, and can easily shift in the body (almost gave myself RSI in my throat and eyes doing voice rec and eye tracking to avoid typing).
- awesomerobot 10y ago
  Right, but if there's flexibility to change the specific inputs... maybe you can change motions when/if they're becoming a problem? Or maybe people should work less?
  - azinman2 10y ago
    Anything fine motor, even if the motions are changed, will inevitably cause problems. The duration doesn't have to be that long -- I could feel the fatigue in my eyes with eye tracking after just 30-40 minutes. The irony of course is that my eyes are doing fine motor control all the time, but when you do it as part of a control-loop then _something_ (neuromuscular?) will cause you to go into RSI mode and you fatigue quickly. If you don't pause for the fatigue you can do permanent damage -- which is what happened to my hands on the most non-ergonomic Apple Newton keyboard. I use fine motor control for pleasure, not just work.