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> Who on Earth writes code on a whiteboard? Like, seriously You know, professionals do this. Anyone who value time and quality. Hipsters may find it weird, bu

by sklogic 10y ago

> Who on Earth writes code on a whiteboard? Like, seriously You know, professionals do this. Anyone who value time and quality. Hipsters may find it weird, but, well, they have decades to learn before they'll become professionals.

vonmoltke 10y ago
I have been an engineer for 14 years and writing software full-time for 8 or them. I have never written code on a whiteboard outside of an interview. I have drawn circuits, flow diagrams, UI wireframes, ERDs, memory layouts, and so on. I don't have my own whiteboard now and it drives me crazy. I have never had a need to write actual code on a whiteboard. Neither has anyone I have ever worked with.
- sklogic 10y ago
  Flowcharts are code. Pseudocode is a code.
  - Clubber 10y ago
    No they aren't. They are a diagram of a process. Code is the instructions used to implement that process. You shouldn't be so smug either.
    - sklogic 10y ago
      Yes they are. A formal language is a code. Any formal language. What is the difference between code and pseudocode in your opinion? And given that on a whiteboard interview you're writing a pseudocode, it is not any different from a typical day at work where you also write pseudocode on a whiteboard, blackboard, sheet of paper or whatever. And if this is not your typical day at work, you're doing it wrong.
      - Clubber 10y ago
        Look up the prefix pseudo. "supposed or purporting to be but not really so; false; not genuine." Another definition, "not genuine; sham." Pseudocode is not computer code as to your assertion. I think you are basing your argument that anything written down that can be turned into code is pseudocode. That is also not correct. Pseudocode has a very specific definition. Here is one: "Pseudocode is an informal high-level description of the operating principle of a computer program or other algorithm. It uses the structural conventions of a normal programming language, but is intended for human reading rather than machine reading." Flow charts do not use the structural conventions of normal programming languages, they use shapes and text. If you are writing pseudocode (the actual definition, not your made up one) every day, you are wasting everyone on your team's time. If you are drawing diagrams every day on a whiteboard, you are still probably wasting everyone's time.
        sklogic 10y ago
        I can only hope I will never have to work in a team with someone like you. That would definitely be a massive waste of time. A typical workflow based on a pseudocode is very simple and efficient: you solve your problem in a pseudocode - an informal language that does not yet exist but captures the essense of the problem. Then, while still on a whiteboard, you refine your pseudocode into something still "pseudo" (i.e., a made up language that does not exist), but formal this time. It may require a couple of iterations to reach perfection. Then it is pretty much done, the only thing left is to implement this DSL, which is trivial in most of the cases. This workflow is far more efficient than anything keyboard stomping kids can achieve in their fixed, always unsuitable, overbloated languages.
        Clubber 10y ago
        Ok, so I guess by your omission, you agree that pseudocode is not code and flow charts are also not pseudocode. I don't care about the rest, you can whiteboard all you want. We analyze the problem, then solve it in our heads, usually by the time we've finished talking about it. White boarding just seems way over the top, especially if it takes more than one person to solve a problem every day. Sounds like development by committee. What's 2+2? Lets go to the whiteboard! Out of curiosity, what industry are you in and stack do you use?

by sklogic 10y ago

vonmoltke 10y ago

I have been an engineer for 14 years and writing software full-time for 8 or them. I have never written code on a whiteboard outside of an interview. I have drawn circuits, flow diagrams, UI wireframes, ERDs, memory layouts, and so on. I don't have my own whiteboard now and it drives me crazy. I have never had a need to write actual code on a whiteboard. Neither has anyone I have ever worked with.

sklogic 10y ago
Flowcharts are code. Pseudocode is a code.
- Clubber 10y ago
  No they aren't. They are a diagram of a process. Code is the instructions used to implement that process. You shouldn't be so smug either.
  - sklogic 10y ago
    Yes they are. A formal language is a code. Any formal language. What is the difference between code and pseudocode in your opinion? And given that on a whiteboard interview you're writing a pseudocode, it is not any different from a typical day at work where you also write pseudocode on a whiteboard, blackboard, sheet of paper or whatever. And if this is not your typical day at work, you're doing it wrong.
    - Clubber 10y ago
      Look up the prefix pseudo. "supposed or purporting to be but not really so; false; not genuine." Another definition, "not genuine; sham." Pseudocode is not computer code as to your assertion. I think you are basing your argument that anything written down that can be turned into code is pseudocode. That is also not correct. Pseudocode has a very specific definition. Here is one: "Pseudocode is an informal high-level description of the operating principle of a computer program or other algorithm. It uses the structural conventions of a normal programming language, but is intended for human reading rather than machine reading." Flow charts do not use the structural conventions of normal programming languages, they use shapes and text. If you are writing pseudocode (the actual definition, not your made up one) every day, you are wasting everyone on your team's time. If you are drawing diagrams every day on a whiteboard, you are still probably wasting everyone's time.
      - sklogic 10y ago
        I can only hope I will never have to work in a team with someone like you. That would definitely be a massive waste of time. A typical workflow based on a pseudocode is very simple and efficient: you solve your problem in a pseudocode - an informal language that does not yet exist but captures the essense of the problem. Then, while still on a whiteboard, you refine your pseudocode into something still "pseudo" (i.e., a made up language that does not exist), but formal this time. It may require a couple of iterations to reach perfection. Then it is pretty much done, the only thing left is to implement this DSL, which is trivial in most of the cases. This workflow is far more efficient than anything keyboard stomping kids can achieve in their fixed, always unsuitable, overbloated languages.
        Clubber 10y ago
        Ok, so I guess by your omission, you agree that pseudocode is not code and flow charts are also not pseudocode. I don't care about the rest, you can whiteboard all you want. We analyze the problem, then solve it in our heads, usually by the time we've finished talking about it. White boarding just seems way over the top, especially if it takes more than one person to solve a problem every day. Sounds like development by committee. What's 2+2? Lets go to the whiteboard! Out of curiosity, what industry are you in and stack do you use?