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I don't get people's need to constantly bring up Thiel's support for Trump, as though it singularly defines him and everything else he does. In this case, his s

by whack 10y ago

I don't get people's need to constantly bring up Thiel's support for Trump, as though it singularly defines him and everything else he does. In this case, his suing Gawker has nothing whatsoever to do with him supporting Trump. Those are 2 completely independent issues, and should be treated as such. Someone could support Trump for a whole bunch of (stupid) reasons that have nothing to do with libel lawsuits, and it's time we stopped conflating these 2 unrelated topics.

fpgeek 10y ago
Thiel suing Gawker has is absolutely related to his Trump support. Trump is the presidential candidate who wants to "open up those libel laws" to make it easier to sue the press. It is certainly notable that one of Trump's prominent supports has pushed the boundaries of existing laws in the service of similar goals. In the other direction, Thiel's Trump support suggests that his funding of Gawker lawsuits isn't just about Gawker and his history with them (which is how many people defend Thiel's actions, describing Gawker as an unusually bad actor that is reaping what they sowed). Instead, it suggests that the Gawker lawsuits are indicative of his broader attitudes about how the press should behave and what consequences there should be for press that doesn't.
- parennoob 10y ago
  > Thiel suing Gawker I think this tends to be papered over too much with "yeah yeah, it's the same thing", but Thiel is not suing Gawker. Thiel is bankrolling a lawsuit against Gawker related to its publishing videos of someone being naked without their consent, an issue that in the case of Erin Andrews led to a $55 million award and widespread public sympathy (http://abcnews.go.com/US/erin-andrews-jury-set-deliberate-75-million-lawsuit/story?id=37460110 http://abcnews.go.com/US/erin-andrews-jury-set-deliberate-75...). Whatever you feel about the Hulk Hogan lawsuit against Gawker is wrong, ask yourself if you would you would feel the same way in the Erin Andrews case.
cronjobber 10y ago
It has been hypothesized that our brain's moral systems are a highjack of systems related to hygiene. I think this phenomenon shows it nicely. Since Thiel has "touched" Trump, he is now "unclean" in the minds of people who perceive Trump through their morality circuits.
- internaut 10y ago
  Yes. And they will proceed further along those lines later on by monitoring all his associations. Nick Denton said as much "The details of your involvement will be gruesome if you continue suing us". Sounds like a threat to me. Thiel surely knows this but he's no coward. If I was him I'd have kept everything a secret. He must have weighted the probability of getting his funding discovered and then attacked by the Media Tribe against the (positive) deterrence factor plus being researched by (negative) private investigators i.e. blackmail efforts. It is ironic that the chilling effects argument would push him into more clandestine arrangements (it's a sinister cabal!). You can't make people happy these days. Far from a billionaire having more rights than the average person, the Media is really arguing they have less rights than the average person i.e. He shouldn't have funded Hogan openly or privately; that is not at all. Presumably if the average person decided to pull together a public fund for their hero Hulk Hogan it wouldn't be a problem. Nick Denton is not a very astute person. Just like in an ecosystem the foxes can't meaningfully 'win' against the rabbits. Some of the rich and powerful I know of would just have outright killed him for toying with them. Denton is depending on the morality of the people he attacks and that is not a very smart thing to do in the long run. That's not me being bombastic or making weird implicit threat. It is an observation of the reality for journalists around the world, the CPJ knows that very intimately. The irony is that if Thiel wasn't a supporter of the CPJ, didn't have strong convictions, then perhaps he'd be less likely to get attacked by the likes of Gawker. If Gawker ever went after real targets Denton would be joining something like the Ecuadorian Embassy. That is a fact. That's why we should be supporting real journalists and not this poser.
- guelo 10y ago
  Thank you for the psychoanalysis. However, I made a specific, logical point about how in another context Thiel is OK with the use of false facts to manipulate the public. It was not a moral or emotional argument.
wtbob 10y ago
> I don't get people's need to constantly bring up Thiel's support for Trump, as though it singularly defines him and everything else he does. It's an ad hominem fallacy: Thiel supports Trump, ergo his assistance to Hulk Hogan is foolish.
- guelo 10y ago
  I made a point and you guys chose to ignore it in order to say my argument was a fallacy. The point was that as a Trump supporter Thiel is OK with using false conspiracy theories to manipulate the public.

by whack 10y ago

fpgeek 10y ago

Thiel suing Gawker has is absolutely related to his Trump support. Trump is the presidential candidate who wants to "open up those libel laws" to make it easier to sue the press. It is certainly notable that one of Trump's prominent supports has pushed the boundaries of existing laws in the service of similar goals. In the other direction, Thiel's Trump support suggests that his funding of Gawker lawsuits isn't just about Gawker and his history with them (which is how many people defend Thiel's actions, describing Gawker as an unusually bad actor that is reaping what they sowed). Instead, it suggests that the Gawker lawsuits are indicative of his broader attitudes about how the press should behave and what consequences there should be for press that doesn't.

parennoob 10y ago
> Thiel suing Gawker I think this tends to be papered over too much with "yeah yeah, it's the same thing", but Thiel is not suing Gawker. Thiel is bankrolling a lawsuit against Gawker related to its publishing videos of someone being naked without their consent, an issue that in the case of Erin Andrews led to a $55 million award and widespread public sympathy (http://abcnews.go.com/US/erin-andrews-jury-set-deliberate-75-million-lawsuit/story?id=37460110 http://abcnews.go.com/US/erin-andrews-jury-set-deliberate-75...). Whatever you feel about the Hulk Hogan lawsuit against Gawker is wrong, ask yourself if you would you would feel the same way in the Erin Andrews case.

cronjobber 10y ago

It has been hypothesized that our brain's moral systems are a highjack of systems related to hygiene. I think this phenomenon shows it nicely. Since Thiel has "touched" Trump, he is now "unclean" in the minds of people who perceive Trump through their morality circuits.

internaut 10y ago
Yes. And they will proceed further along those lines later on by monitoring all his associations. Nick Denton said as much "The details of your involvement will be gruesome if you continue suing us". Sounds like a threat to me. Thiel surely knows this but he's no coward. If I was him I'd have kept everything a secret. He must have weighted the probability of getting his funding discovered and then attacked by the Media Tribe against the (positive) deterrence factor plus being researched by (negative) private investigators i.e. blackmail efforts. It is ironic that the chilling effects argument would push him into more clandestine arrangements (it's a sinister cabal!). You can't make people happy these days. Far from a billionaire having more rights than the average person, the Media is really arguing they have less rights than the average person i.e. He shouldn't have funded Hogan openly or privately; that is not at all. Presumably if the average person decided to pull together a public fund for their hero Hulk Hogan it wouldn't be a problem. Nick Denton is not a very astute person. Just like in an ecosystem the foxes can't meaningfully 'win' against the rabbits. Some of the rich and powerful I know of would just have outright killed him for toying with them. Denton is depending on the morality of the people he attacks and that is not a very smart thing to do in the long run. That's not me being bombastic or making weird implicit threat. It is an observation of the reality for journalists around the world, the CPJ knows that very intimately. The irony is that if Thiel wasn't a supporter of the CPJ, didn't have strong convictions, then perhaps he'd be less likely to get attacked by the likes of Gawker. If Gawker ever went after real targets Denton would be joining something like the Ecuadorian Embassy. That is a fact. That's why we should be supporting real journalists and not this poser.
guelo 10y ago
Thank you for the psychoanalysis. However, I made a specific, logical point about how in another context Thiel is OK with the use of false facts to manipulate the public. It was not a moral or emotional argument.

wtbob 10y ago

> I don't get people's need to constantly bring up Thiel's support for Trump, as though it singularly defines him and everything else he does. It's an ad hominem fallacy: Thiel supports Trump, ergo his assistance to Hulk Hogan is foolish.

guelo 10y ago
I made a point and you guys chose to ignore it in order to say my argument was a fallacy. The point was that as a Trump supporter Thiel is OK with using false conspiracy theories to manipulate the public.