4 ms·

I play video games that involve murder, and I wish I could disagree with you, but damn it...I can't. I happen to agree with everything you said. I like to play

by bmer 10y ago

I play video games that involve murder, and I wish I could disagree with you, but damn it...I can't. I happen to agree with everything you said. I like to play a top-down 2D space RPG, which has lasers, missiles, and all of that. I want to find a way to justify that playing that game does not make a bad person. Is this possible? Also, how would one make sense of enjoying movies like Star Wars?

kirrent 10y ago
Yes, of course it's possible. Something like FTL is a fun, engaging game which makes use of conflict as a game mechanic and driving force. The game wouldn't make sense without it. You might as well bemoan the 'violence' of chess with its military units and combat. Video games can be enhanced through the use of violence just as books, film, and board games can. You're not a bad person for enjoying it. You're just a person.
- bmer 10y ago
  But why bother using conflict as a driving force? Is it simply because we are used to conflict being a driving force in our entertainment for millennia (e.g. chess being set in a military environment, even though it could be completely abstracted away from it)?
  - kirrent 10y ago
    Why do I love the aesthetic of a Tarantino film? Because it's fun. Violence and catharsis are powerful tools that can enhance a bit of media when used correctly. They can be critical and make you feel negative emotions a la Spec Ops: the line, they can switch off your critical faculties and let you have mindless fun like Saints Row, or they can exist in a more abstract and stylised form like in FTL. Sure, all of these examples could be remade using other techniques to drive them forward but I can't imagine them being as good that way. It's not only because we're used to conflict being a driving force in entertainment. It's also because it's such an effective driving force for so many types of entertainment. For me, no other justification is needed for artist's to make an artistic choice. Video games with murder are not only fun.
pitay 10y ago
I don't see how that makes you a bad person at all. It's natural to have an interest in violence, simply because of humankind's violent history, as well as other creatures as well. It is being honest, unlike most people who criticise games. I would say that someone who derides others for enjoying some media with violence in it is a much worse person. Why: * People who criticise such things are generally do it because they don't like it, not because it is bad. Although they will say they don't like it because games are bad, or maybe another media they don't participate in. There is no evidence being presented by these people that the media they don't like is bad. * They are being dishonest and hyperbolic. Let's take a couple of quotes from the grandparent post. "very close to 100% of the games being made seem to be about murdering other creatures", and "Part of me thinks we should drop the pretext of a "Gaming Industry" and just start calling it the "Murder Simulation Industry"."". Obviously these are nowhere near honest. 'Murder Simulation Industry', I mean come on, could you make a more negative slant against games than that. * They often say it to belittle other people so they can elevate themselves, at least in their mind. It is like people who say they don't play 'cliche' games and say that people who play mainstream games are retards. Same sort of belittling there as well. I wouldn't trust either of these people. Why would you care about what entertainment someone enjoys? Even if it is violent, it is not like they are actually being violent by enjoying some type of media.
erikpukinskis 10y ago
I think the idea that you can be a "good person" is a destructive fairy tale. The sorting of individuals into naughty and nice is not a good model of how harm happens. I wish more people could just accept that we all do evil things, often unknowingly. Much evil happens through no ill will. Part of being human is doing terrible things. It's not a reason to panic, but it's also not something that should be swept under the rug. All of the commenters saying "I think you are a good person" are like drug addicts. We can't handle the idea that we might be partly destructive, so we invent new moralities that are like drugs... they work in any situation to wash away the emotions of guilt. Stuff like "you tried your best" or "you did't know". But, like addiction, the real solution is that we accept that not every day is going to be awesome sunshine rainbows and sometimes it's good to spend time thinking about the ways you are bad, and the harm that you do.

by bmer 10y ago

kirrent 10y ago

Yes, of course it's possible. Something like FTL is a fun, engaging game which makes use of conflict as a game mechanic and driving force. The game wouldn't make sense without it. You might as well bemoan the 'violence' of chess with its military units and combat. Video games can be enhanced through the use of violence just as books, film, and board games can. You're not a bad person for enjoying it. You're just a person.

bmer 10y ago
But why bother using conflict as a driving force? Is it simply because we are used to conflict being a driving force in our entertainment for millennia (e.g. chess being set in a military environment, even though it could be completely abstracted away from it)?
- kirrent 10y ago
  Why do I love the aesthetic of a Tarantino film? Because it's fun. Violence and catharsis are powerful tools that can enhance a bit of media when used correctly. They can be critical and make you feel negative emotions a la Spec Ops: the line, they can switch off your critical faculties and let you have mindless fun like Saints Row, or they can exist in a more abstract and stylised form like in FTL. Sure, all of these examples could be remade using other techniques to drive them forward but I can't imagine them being as good that way. It's not only because we're used to conflict being a driving force in entertainment. It's also because it's such an effective driving force for so many types of entertainment. For me, no other justification is needed for artist's to make an artistic choice. Video games with murder are not only fun.

pitay 10y ago

I don't see how that makes you a bad person at all. It's natural to have an interest in violence, simply because of humankind's violent history, as well as other creatures as well. It is being honest, unlike most people who criticise games. I would say that someone who derides others for enjoying some media with violence in it is a much worse person. Why: * People who criticise such things are generally do it because they don't like it, not because it is bad. Although they will say they don't like it because games are bad, or maybe another media they don't participate in. There is no evidence being presented by these people that the media they don't like is bad. * They are being dishonest and hyperbolic. Let's take a couple of quotes from the grandparent post. "very close to 100% of the games being made seem to be about murdering other creatures", and "Part of me thinks we should drop the pretext of a "Gaming Industry" and just start calling it the "Murder Simulation Industry"."". Obviously these are nowhere near honest. 'Murder Simulation Industry', I mean come on, could you make a more negative slant against games than that. * They often say it to belittle other people so they can elevate themselves, at least in their mind. It is like people who say they don't play 'cliche' games and say that people who play mainstream games are retards. Same sort of belittling there as well. I wouldn't trust either of these people. Why would you care about what entertainment someone enjoys? Even if it is violent, it is not like they are actually being violent by enjoying some type of media.

erikpukinskis 10y ago

I think the idea that you can be a "good person" is a destructive fairy tale. The sorting of individuals into naughty and nice is not a good model of how harm happens. I wish more people could just accept that we all do evil things, often unknowingly. Much evil happens through no ill will. Part of being human is doing terrible things. It's not a reason to panic, but it's also not something that should be swept under the rug. All of the commenters saying "I think you are a good person" are like drug addicts. We can't handle the idea that we might be partly destructive, so we invent new moralities that are like drugs... they work in any situation to wash away the emotions of guilt. Stuff like "you tried your best" or "you did't know". But, like addiction, the real solution is that we accept that not every day is going to be awesome sunshine rainbows and sometimes it's good to spend time thinking about the ways you are bad, and the harm that you do.