60 ms·

It is unbelievable how (self)censored the mainstream media/politics discussion is. Keith Alexander lied to the congress on record, whistleblowers before Snowden

by dandare 10y ago

It is unbelievable how (self)censored the mainstream media/politics discussion is. Keith Alexander lied to the congress on record, whistleblowers before Snowden were jailed for blowing the whistle and there was absolutely no chance he could reveal/fix any illegal wrongdoing by the government via the official whistleblowers channels. He did not run away and ruin his sweet life for the lulz, there was clearly no other way. Why is this argument not immediately raised every time some clown uses the "he broke the law, he has to face the music" argument?

vermontdevil 10y ago
Petraeus too. Now he's "recovered" and will be a big player in the next administration
- qrendel 10y ago
  And let's not forget James Clapper.
- sgnelson 10y ago
  You mean Betrayus, who gave away secrets for sex (and in part so that he would look better in his "biography," and most likely turn that into a permanent political career) and received a slap on the wrist.
tdkl 10y ago
> Keith Alexander lied to the congress on record You forgot the war liars/criminals Bush, Rice and Powell.
- blackguardx 10y ago
  I was under the impression that Powell was a man of integrity and really resented being used by the Bush administration to provide justification for the war. I thought he was just regurgitating the lies told to him. Edit: Am I being downvoted for expressing my knowledge of the situation? If you think I am wrong, say so. Try to educate me. Downvoting for disagreeing does nothing. When he testified about yellowcake uranium, I thought he believed the reports to be true.
  - tosseraccount 10y ago
    Leading poltical figures in the other party reported that Iraq had WMDs and used such arguments to wage war on Iraq before Bush. http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_%281998%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_%281998%29
    - asveikau 10y ago
      I don't understand what this contributes to the discussion. The other side did something like it too, therefore it was completely justified?
  - frandroid 10y ago
    That's still lying under oath.
    - hutzlibu 10y ago
      If he didn't know, it was a lie, it is not lying. But I don't know what he knew.
  - qrendel 10y ago
    It's extremely unlikely most of the top people involved didn't know. See: https://theintercept.com/2016/02/18/trump-is-right-bush-lied-a-little-known-part-of-the-bogus-case-for-war/ https://theintercept.com/2016/02/18/trump-is-right-bush-lied... There's also a link in there to a section of Bob Woodward's book Plan of Attack claiming Powell knowingly altered evidence for his UN presentation.
    - anonbanker 10y ago
      is it just me, or is Trump way more libertarian than anyone is giving him credit for? (disclaimer: anarcho-capitalist living in Canada. I have no stake in the game.)
- walrus01 10y ago
  Kissinger.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld are still on top of my shitlist as far as people that need to be brought to justice for betraying America. Unlike the "harms" Snowden did, their disinformation campaign on Iraq murdered over 6,000 Americans, maimed many more, killed several hundred thousand in Iraq, cost a few hundred billion, and have trillions in long-term liabilities. I consider Snowden's case a mixed bag depending on which leaks we're talking about. Yet, locking him away for damage to national security without giving the rest life imprisonment doesn't begin to be justice.
  - dTal 10y ago
    Cheney and Rumsfeld had power since they seized it in 1975 (google "Halloween massacre"). They're responsible for far more than just the Iraq war.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Holy crap, I didn't even know all that happened! Combined with military efforts and Bush-Cheney Administration, it shows quite a strong cabal that has lasted for a long time with that close-knit group. "Democracy" in action. ;)
      - anonbanker 10y ago
        they have all the trimmings of fascism, a trail of dead bodies in their wake, countless administrations that they've popped up in, and actual ties to the Nazis (not just Prescott Bush, either). But you'll be godwin'd if you compare them out loud.
StanislavPetrov 10y ago
>Why is this argument not immediately raised every time some clown uses the "he broke the law, he has to face the music" argument? Corporate media outlets exist to disseminate propaganda, not seek consistent, logical answers to important questions. They seek to frame the debate in the context constructed by Wall Street and Washington and redirect anger and angst so that people fight against each other instead of against their masters. That's why "identity politics" has become so resurgent in recent years, as the class divide has sharpened and the middle-class has withered. As long as people are polarized and can be pitted against each other on the basis of race, ethnicity, or sexuality, they aren't united against the oligarchs. Its the same exact strategy used by prison guards to maintain control of the prisons. Pit the blacks against the whites against the hispanics and the prison guards can observe safely from the walls. The guards only face a threat from the prisoners when they are united against those who keep them in bondage. Snowden represents the greatest threat in that regards. If you support Snowden's actions, you are explicitly acknowledging not only that the law is dog shit, but that Snowden was justified in breaking it because of how incredibly repressive the government is. He represents the ultimate repudiation of the system that runs the entire country and most of the world. The corporate media is the voice of this system.
- andrei_says_ 10y ago
  Speaking of media, I can't recommend citizenfour enough. An amazing historical document.
- cm2012 10y ago
  Corporate media outlets exist to make money. They will (extremely) happily report on government scandals if the public cares enough to watch. The public doesn't care enough about privacy.
  - StanislavPetrov 10y ago
    Corporate media outlets are not stand-alone companies that exist to make money. They are owned by massive conglomerates. For example, Sheldon Adelson owns Israel Hayom, the largest newspaper in Israel. He distributes the paper for free and has lost an estimated $50 million dollars on it over the last few years. He recently purchased the Las Vegas-Journal Review, Nevada's largest newspaper (he also owns Sands entertainment/casinos). His first order of business was to replace the editor with one of his cronies. He didn't buy these newspapers to make money. He bought these newspapers to control the media and control the narrative.
ipsin 10y ago
Yeah, it's a comical argument, that he should come home and "face justice". You can't even call it just because the judge would probably prohibit a moral defense, and even if the judge did, the jury wouldn't couldn't be told that they could consider anything beyond the law itself. So Snowden should come home, be robbed of a chance of justice, be robbed of his voice and his freedom, to prove... what, that the NSA was right all along?
nickpsecurity 10y ago
I agree. This is a form of self-censorship in the media to stay tight with Washington. They have special privileges they don't want to loose. They might also be concerned given the reaction of Obama Administration to leakers and anyone supporting them. Cover their ass on top of their normal games.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by dandare 10y ago

vermontdevil 10y ago

Petraeus too. Now he's "recovered" and will be a big player in the next administration

qrendel 10y ago
And let's not forget James Clapper.
sgnelson 10y ago
You mean Betrayus, who gave away secrets for sex (and in part so that he would look better in his "biography," and most likely turn that into a permanent political career) and received a slap on the wrist.

tdkl 10y ago

> Keith Alexander lied to the congress on record You forgot the war liars/criminals Bush, Rice and Powell.

blackguardx 10y ago
I was under the impression that Powell was a man of integrity and really resented being used by the Bush administration to provide justification for the war. I thought he was just regurgitating the lies told to him. Edit: Am I being downvoted for expressing my knowledge of the situation? If you think I am wrong, say so. Try to educate me. Downvoting for disagreeing does nothing. When he testified about yellowcake uranium, I thought he believed the reports to be true.
- tosseraccount 10y ago
  Leading poltical figures in the other party reported that Iraq had WMDs and used such arguments to wage war on Iraq before Bush. http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_%281998%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_%281998%29
  - asveikau 10y ago
    I don't understand what this contributes to the discussion. The other side did something like it too, therefore it was completely justified?
- frandroid 10y ago
  That's still lying under oath.
  - hutzlibu 10y ago
    If he didn't know, it was a lie, it is not lying. But I don't know what he knew.
- qrendel 10y ago
  It's extremely unlikely most of the top people involved didn't know. See: https://theintercept.com/2016/02/18/trump-is-right-bush-lied-a-little-known-part-of-the-bogus-case-for-war/ https://theintercept.com/2016/02/18/trump-is-right-bush-lied... There's also a link in there to a section of Bob Woodward's book Plan of Attack claiming Powell knowingly altered evidence for his UN presentation.
  - anonbanker 10y ago
    is it just me, or is Trump way more libertarian than anyone is giving him credit for? (disclaimer: anarcho-capitalist living in Canada. I have no stake in the game.)
walrus01 10y ago
Kissinger.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
nickpsecurity 10y ago
Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld are still on top of my shitlist as far as people that need to be brought to justice for betraying America. Unlike the "harms" Snowden did, their disinformation campaign on Iraq murdered over 6,000 Americans, maimed many more, killed several hundred thousand in Iraq, cost a few hundred billion, and have trillions in long-term liabilities. I consider Snowden's case a mixed bag depending on which leaks we're talking about. Yet, locking him away for damage to national security without giving the rest life imprisonment doesn't begin to be justice.
- dTal 10y ago
  Cheney and Rumsfeld had power since they seized it in 1975 (google "Halloween massacre"). They're responsible for far more than just the Iraq war.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    Holy crap, I didn't even know all that happened! Combined with military efforts and Bush-Cheney Administration, it shows quite a strong cabal that has lasted for a long time with that close-knit group. "Democracy" in action. ;)
    - anonbanker 10y ago
      they have all the trimmings of fascism, a trail of dead bodies in their wake, countless administrations that they've popped up in, and actual ties to the Nazis (not just Prescott Bush, either). But you'll be godwin'd if you compare them out loud.

StanislavPetrov 10y ago

>Why is this argument not immediately raised every time some clown uses the "he broke the law, he has to face the music" argument? Corporate media outlets exist to disseminate propaganda, not seek consistent, logical answers to important questions. They seek to frame the debate in the context constructed by Wall Street and Washington and redirect anger and angst so that people fight against each other instead of against their masters. That's why "identity politics" has become so resurgent in recent years, as the class divide has sharpened and the middle-class has withered. As long as people are polarized and can be pitted against each other on the basis of race, ethnicity, or sexuality, they aren't united against the oligarchs. Its the same exact strategy used by prison guards to maintain control of the prisons. Pit the blacks against the whites against the hispanics and the prison guards can observe safely from the walls. The guards only face a threat from the prisoners when they are united against those who keep them in bondage. Snowden represents the greatest threat in that regards. If you support Snowden's actions, you are explicitly acknowledging not only that the law is dog shit, but that Snowden was justified in breaking it because of how incredibly repressive the government is. He represents the ultimate repudiation of the system that runs the entire country and most of the world. The corporate media is the voice of this system.

andrei_says_ 10y ago
Speaking of media, I can't recommend citizenfour enough. An amazing historical document.
cm2012 10y ago
Corporate media outlets exist to make money. They will (extremely) happily report on government scandals if the public cares enough to watch. The public doesn't care enough about privacy.
- StanislavPetrov 10y ago
  Corporate media outlets are not stand-alone companies that exist to make money. They are owned by massive conglomerates. For example, Sheldon Adelson owns Israel Hayom, the largest newspaper in Israel. He distributes the paper for free and has lost an estimated $50 million dollars on it over the last few years. He recently purchased the Las Vegas-Journal Review, Nevada's largest newspaper (he also owns Sands entertainment/casinos). His first order of business was to replace the editor with one of his cronies. He didn't buy these newspapers to make money. He bought these newspapers to control the media and control the narrative.

ipsin 10y ago

Yeah, it's a comical argument, that he should come home and "face justice". You can't even call it just because the judge would probably prohibit a moral defense, and even if the judge did, the jury wouldn't couldn't be told that they could consider anything beyond the law itself. So Snowden should come home, be robbed of a chance of justice, be robbed of his voice and his freedom, to prove... what, that the NSA was right all along?

nickpsecurity 10y ago

I agree. This is a form of self-censorship in the media to stay tight with Washington. They have special privileges they don't want to loose. They might also be concerned given the reaction of Obama Administration to leakers and anyone supporting them. Cover their ass on top of their normal games.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]