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I hope Obama does something to resolve both the Snowden situation and get Chelsea Manning out of prison before he leaves office. I can't see what the downside i

I hope Obama does something to resolve both the Snowden situation and get Chelsea Manning out of prison before he leaves office. I can't see what the downside is to him of doing the right thing at this point.

athathra 10y ago
Sometimes you have to be careful not to get JFK'ed.
dandare 10y ago
What makes you think he is up for the right thing? Serious question.
- mwfunk 10y ago
  Everyone wants to do the right thing, they just all have different ideas about what the right thing is. There's always hope that people will come around. Not much, but it's all we've got. Every time someone decides that someone they disagree with isn't trying to do the right thing (at least according to their own judgement), a kitten dies. Also, every time a public official does change their mind about something but gets punished for it by being accused of "flip-flopping", 2 kittens die. Those two things plus money in politics are my personal top 3 reasons for why we can't have nice things (and/or kittens) in US politics.
  - dTal 10y ago
    If you cannot come up with stronger arguments than "a kitten dies", you are succumbing to the same "my way is right" mentality that you are criticizing.
gogopuppygogo 10y ago
Manning isn't the same as Snowden. Lumping them together is a disservice to what Snowden did. Manning volunteered for the military and gave up some rights as a result. He then distributed data that put lives in danger because he didn't think to clean it up. Snowden was a private citizen, one who felt his country was not going down the right path. He took time to hatch a plan and release data that he believed wouldn't risk the lives of others. Snowden deserves a medal not prison.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dandare 10y ago
  You are bit mistaken - both Snowden and Manning went through reputable journalists, neither of them dumped any data directly to the public/adversaries. Also saying that if you volunteered for the military you should STFU when you see war crimes is questionable at best.
- jbicha 10y ago
  If Manning is a volunteer, how wasn't Snowden a volunteer too? Both signed strict non-disclosure agreements to work for the US government. Both gave up rights. In one way, Snowden served more voluntarily than Manning did, because Snowden could quit but Manning had to fulfill the enlistment term. Had Manning walked off the job exactly like Snowden did, he could easily have been court-martialed just for that, especially as Manning was working in a war zone.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  No, Snowden did exactly what Manning did with the data except took the time to read and organize it per several interviews. Despite being able to filter to domestic only, he instead dumped all NSA's secrets (including foreign operations) he had onto foreign journalists. That's risking operators' lives esp if a foreign, intelligence service our human assets target decides to target those media organizations. Given their results on defense contractors and banks, I'd bet on the foreign spooks getting the Snowden files except for where they were airgapped, guarded day & night in person, and only used by long-time vets. So, operations blown, tactics exposed, and foreigners having our data on foreign operations. Yes, he burned the shit out of U.S. operations on top of his domestic whistleblowing which I applaud. An example of someone who didn't burn us would be Binney who, knowing all kinds of capabilities, just leaked specific programs and data that were unconstitutional and a threat to citizens' rights.
  - us0r 10y ago
    >foreign journalists Laura Poitras and Glenn Greenwald are American citizens?
krapp 10y ago
>I can't see what the downside is to him of doing the right thing at this point. It would be political suicide for the Democratic Party and guarantee a Trump victory.
- abhi3 10y ago
  But he'd do it after the election but before a new President is sworn in. Look up Bill Clinton's last day pardons.
- anonbanker 10y ago
  as if Clinton had a chance against Trump. It's like the opposite of McCain/Obama in 2008. Trump is the "Hope" candidate, and Clinton is the "dear god, don't let her in the office" candidate. If anything, it would probably unite the liberal base, But Clinton is a "centrist"; She's trying to win over republicans with her pro-war agenda. She isn't confident in the liberal base being large enough to win an election.

athathra 10y ago

Sometimes you have to be careful not to get JFK'ed.

dandare 10y ago

What makes you think he is up for the right thing? Serious question.

mwfunk 10y ago
Everyone wants to do the right thing, they just all have different ideas about what the right thing is. There's always hope that people will come around. Not much, but it's all we've got. Every time someone decides that someone they disagree with isn't trying to do the right thing (at least according to their own judgement), a kitten dies. Also, every time a public official does change their mind about something but gets punished for it by being accused of "flip-flopping", 2 kittens die. Those two things plus money in politics are my personal top 3 reasons for why we can't have nice things (and/or kittens) in US politics.
- dTal 10y ago
  If you cannot come up with stronger arguments than "a kitten dies", you are succumbing to the same "my way is right" mentality that you are criticizing.

gogopuppygogo 10y ago

Manning isn't the same as Snowden. Lumping them together is a disservice to what Snowden did. Manning volunteered for the military and gave up some rights as a result. He then distributed data that put lives in danger because he didn't think to clean it up. Snowden was a private citizen, one who felt his country was not going down the right path. He took time to hatch a plan and release data that he believed wouldn't risk the lives of others. Snowden deserves a medal not prison.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dandare 10y ago
You are bit mistaken - both Snowden and Manning went through reputable journalists, neither of them dumped any data directly to the public/adversaries. Also saying that if you volunteered for the military you should STFU when you see war crimes is questionable at best.
jbicha 10y ago
If Manning is a volunteer, how wasn't Snowden a volunteer too? Both signed strict non-disclosure agreements to work for the US government. Both gave up rights. In one way, Snowden served more voluntarily than Manning did, because Snowden could quit but Manning had to fulfill the enlistment term. Had Manning walked off the job exactly like Snowden did, he could easily have been court-martialed just for that, especially as Manning was working in a war zone.
nickpsecurity 10y ago
No, Snowden did exactly what Manning did with the data except took the time to read and organize it per several interviews. Despite being able to filter to domestic only, he instead dumped all NSA's secrets (including foreign operations) he had onto foreign journalists. That's risking operators' lives esp if a foreign, intelligence service our human assets target decides to target those media organizations. Given their results on defense contractors and banks, I'd bet on the foreign spooks getting the Snowden files except for where they were airgapped, guarded day & night in person, and only used by long-time vets. So, operations blown, tactics exposed, and foreigners having our data on foreign operations. Yes, he burned the shit out of U.S. operations on top of his domestic whistleblowing which I applaud. An example of someone who didn't burn us would be Binney who, knowing all kinds of capabilities, just leaked specific programs and data that were unconstitutional and a threat to citizens' rights.
- us0r 10y ago
  >foreign journalists Laura Poitras and Glenn Greenwald are American citizens?

krapp 10y ago

>I can't see what the downside is to him of doing the right thing at this point. It would be political suicide for the Democratic Party and guarantee a Trump victory.

abhi3 10y ago
But he'd do it after the election but before a new President is sworn in. Look up Bill Clinton's last day pardons.
anonbanker 10y ago
as if Clinton had a chance against Trump. It's like the opposite of McCain/Obama in 2008. Trump is the "Hope" candidate, and Clinton is the "dear god, don't let her in the office" candidate. If anything, it would probably unite the liberal base, But Clinton is a "centrist"; She's trying to win over republicans with her pro-war agenda. She isn't confident in the liberal base being large enough to win an election.